City of Ferndale Planning Commission 01-15-2025

Planning commission meeting of Wednesday, January 15. Get started here at 06:33. And we'll start with a roll call attendance.

Newman. Here. Azar. Here.

Chair Foster.

Here.

Showalter. Here. Brazen. Here. And Subhashathani.

Here.

And we have heard from commissioner Moshely that he will not be able to join us this evening evening and that, councilman Pawlakka will be late.

I'd like

to make a motion to excuse, councilman Pawlakka and, commissioner Moshe Shelley.

Second. All those in favor? Aye.

Aye.

Alright. Next approval of the agenda this evening. We have no items of, business, but, couple, discussion items. Any suggested edits?

I move to approve the agenda January 15 as printed. Second.

All those in favor?

Aye. Aye.

Alright. Next, we have approval of the minutes. Consideration of approval of the December 18, 2024 meeting minutes.

I move to approve the minutes provided, for 12/18/2024. Second.

All those in favor. Aye. Yeah. Alright. Next, we have a call to audience.

If anyone from audience would like to come up and speak to

the council, now would be the time. Thank you. Welcome.

Good evening. My name is Phil Lombard. I live here in the city. I wanted to start off, by thanking you folks for taking your time. You're not paid to to do this.

And, just trying to keep up with city meetings is tough. I've tried. I've watched a lot of videos recently, and I usually skip a lot of them. And I usually fast forward and can go one and a half times the speed. So, anyway, I know you guys spend a lot of time doing this kind of stuff, so I appreciate that.

Now here's the other half of what I wanna say. I'm disappointed in how well or how not well the city, the planning commission's part of it, of course, did recently with this, zoning Ferndale. And I'm, speaking primarily of the lack of information for residents. I see a lot of goals and what they'd like to say and what they'd like to be, but I see very little comparisons, quantifications, anything kind anything like that. So I'm talking about numbers.

First off, numbers for residents. Recently, saw a developer speak in front of people, and the the one developer spoke. And then, so, a few, city residents spoke. One person said, she did a petition, so she's speaking for 58 people. I understand why you don't you can't, believe all that.

You you can't believe me. But the quantification I'm looking at as a resident is one developer, x number of, city residents don't wanna see single family houses changed from r one single family houses to now up to three or four apartment buildings. That's what I'm talking about. This is this is all just about that. Not all, but part of it.

I didn't see anything like that. So I'd like to to know how many residents it takes for somebody who doesn't live in the city to want something to happen. I don't know if that there is a a the right number in the city who can overrule a planning commission or a a single developer. So that's one point of quantification. Next, point of quantification, there are very little graphics and information for the city on population density because we need more.

You could have used, for example, from city from Zip App was the 100 highest population density cities in Michigan. Ferndale's number 11 at, right around 5,000. That could have been in there, and they say, no. Doug done it. We don't want 5,000 residents per square mile.

We want 6,000. That's the number we're looking for. No. There was nothing like that done. And I'm being a little pedantic with that.

I I'm not trying to say 6,000 is the right number. I'm not sure what number is. But once again, there's a little comparison for the city residents to know. So Ferndale is eleventh in the state out of 100 most dense cities. You could have, shown census blocks.

There are seven census blocks in in the city, seventeen thirty through seventeen thirty six. And I know I'm preaching to the choir here. You guys know all this probably because you're on the planning commission. And the density ranges from, 45 or 4,126, people in the census tract that's Southwest adjacent to, Royal Oak Township. And it goes up to as high as, Census Tract 1731.

That density is just over 7,100 people per square mile. That's the the tract that's North Of 9 just East of Woodward. None of this kind of information was put out. You know, there was all kinds of things could be done like this to compare what is happening now, what you'd like to see happen, what are the residents willing to live with. You guys are not doing a good job for the student the students.

I'm sorry. For the residents of Ferndale to help make decisions and to help how do we compare with other folks? That would have been, I think, a key thing for you and, of course, and I'll yell at the city council at the time when that happens. But, those kind of informations should be out there, and I'm sorry to see it wasn't. And I imagine there are tons more things that could be done with, graphical information systems about how we how we are now and how we'd like to be, but it's not done.

And I just don't think that's the best way to operate. That's all. Thanks. Bye.

Thank you. Hi. Hi. Welcome. My

name is Becky Hammond. Phil's my husband. We feel the same way about, some of these things. So I feel like a lot of residents here, the rezoning really blindsided me. The national elections just that just happened blindsided me, but I feel like this rezoning was worse.

We've lived here since, 1986. We've been homeowners here since, 1989. We raised our son here. He went all through Ferndale High School here. We love our city.

We love it the way it is, understanding that change is inevitable and that we all have to face some of this. To be to watch videos after all this happened, to hear a developer come into this meeting and say, well, change is uncomfortable. And that this person is not a Ferndale resident, not a taxpayer, didn't send their kid to school here, almost certainly lives in r one zoning somewhere in the city where he can absolutely count on debt remaining the same and him feeling safe and secure in a world of constant change, in a nation of constant change. We have political change. We have climate change.

We all have personal changes in our lives. And so what we would like is something that seems pretty reasonable, is for our city that we love the way it is, and we've stayed here because it is what we love, to stay as much the same as possible. Again, understanding that some change is inevitable. We all face this. We're hearing a lot about our feelings as this has happened that we fear this.

I haven't heard anybody talk about fearing this. I I we feel a lot of different ways about this. Aghast, angry. I I don't feel that anyone fears this. Yes.

Change is uncomfortable. We all fear feel this. But there's a sort of unspoken idea that if we love Ferndale and we stay here, some of our family members, we've wanted to move up north for so long that people actually laugh when we bring it up. But we stay because we love our city and we love our neighborhood so much and it's so hard to leave. There really seems to be an idea that if we don't let developers tell us right amount of change is for us, that something is wrong with us.

And if we've stayed here for decades because we love this city, there's something wrong with this that we're stagnating or flatlined. These words come up. I think it ought to be more acceptable to love your city and to be able to say this. Phil talked about density. This this idea came up for me.

I don't know urban planning terms. And when some changes came potentially into our neighborhood, I believe in 2018, I had never heard this term before, and I don't think that I knew I don't think that I knew that you could sort of Google this and find this easily. I thought you sort of had to be an urban planner or understand this world to be able to find terminology like this. So I was pretty as this has come up over the years, I was pretty shocked to find that even though we keep hearing that Ferndale needs more density, we need to achieve density, That our population density is actually more than twice the national urban average, and that parts of Ferndale are even higher than that, approaching three times the national urban average. Again, I'm a classical musician, so I don't these this is not my field.

But also looking into this further, and this is all pretty recent to me, that psychological density is a stressor. So if you're adding more people into neighborhoods, this can be something detrimental to our lives. It can cause a rise in stress hormones. All people handle this differently. But this is something to take into account that I haven't heard, brought up yet.

This this seems to mostly benefit. I this seems to mostly benefit a handful of developers who don't live here, who see us as a cash cow. That's what we live in. But other principles get brought into this that don't really seem to have anything to do with what these developers want. So racism comes up and density as a positive comes up.

There's a sort of conflating of zoning and redlining. People believe this because I feel like the people here really trust city officials. We trust our government. We hear the term friend of family a lot. But I really feel like all the people who who call themselves developers and is such a positive word, all they want is to make money.

But we're we're a city. You know? We're communities. We're neighborhoods. We really like things the way they are.

It's a feeling of safety and security in a world where an awful lot is changing. We're having a hard time with that. Thank you.

Thank you. Seeing that, no others are here, I'm gonna end the call to console. And we don't have, zoning ordinance on our agenda for this evening, but we also have a light agenda. And I would definitely like to, just touch on a few points that were made. Starting off with I I agree that's it it can be quite difficult to keep up with all the meetings and all that, information.

Are we on camera right now?

Well, we're at least on TV.

Yeah. I'm just saying, why why are we being They're

asking they're asking why are we on this camera?

Just not used to it. I just noticed that. But sorry. I was distracted.

Usually usually, what's on here is what's on here.

Here we go. Thank you. Alright. I apologize for the distraction. It can be very difficult to keep up.

I I feel the same way, quite often, and, and we agree that it's quite difficult to educate the public, on what's going on. The zoning ordinance particularly was a eighteen month process, and so a lot of the information was spread out over time. And the zoning ordinance is typically built off of the master plan, which is a much more public publicly engaged process. And as part of that, there's a lot more of the data that you can find, as part of that process. It's it also lives within the master plan as a lot of the information specific demographics and population, characteristics, etcetera.

And then the zoning ordinance is built off of that. It is, of course, over a long period longer period of time that both of those plans, and the plan and the ordinance are built. But I was actually just looking this last yesterday for some reason that, in the early stages at the steering committee, after a few months of public engagement on the zoning ordinance, we did get, we did compile information after we had a housing specific workshop for the zoning ordinance. And I believe this would have been then in 2023 at the onset of the zoning ordinance process. We did have a housing workshop and, we also had an online forum where and we, as part of this process submitted, or like, sent out 500 postcards to random citizens throughout the area, and we were posting postcards.

There's there's information to send people online to, provide their feedback, And we did have percentages of, respondents of who, identified whether they're comfortable with single family, duplexes, triplexes, and quadplexes. And the quadplexes, being the lowest, in favor of at 53%, but still a majority. And the triplexes, I'm not remembering the percentage there, but is I think in the sixties and duplexes, I believe was overwhelming, like, 70 or 80%, and obviously people are in favor of single family homes. And so we did do. We did there was part of this as part of the process.

I think that it's difficult to show all of that at the end, and to identify at the final meetings, you can't give a a comprehensive overview of all that information.

Can I ask why 500 postcards were sent in a city with a population of 19 to 20,000?

I think that was, a statistically significant, portion of the population to provide feedback. And I think because of, city constraints for, in terms of resources.

Is there a reason why it was never called rezoning, which technically and by definition is what it is?

I'm sorry. I'm not gonna have a back and forth here. I mean, this isn't as part of our agenda, but I I do wanna make sure that I'm addressing the issues that you guys brought up. Okay.

So it's just not gonna be back and forth back and forth. I'd just like to add before I I step back that we get the newsletter and we read it. I never saw rezoning. I would see in two issues of the newsletter a tiny blurb near the end. I think the Dog Park and the princess dance got more space in the newsletter than rezoning Mhmm.

Which I still have never seen anywhere.

Because we haven't rezoned anything yet.

Well I thought it was voted.

I guess, yes. It is rezoned. But because it's a zoning ordinance amendment, that's just typically how it's, identified, I guess.

Okay.

Mhmm. I mean, because so when we rezone a specific property I guess this is where I was getting confused just now. We we noticed for that area and for the surrounding 500 feet of, of residents for the specific rezoning, and, the state has different, different process that's mandated by the state's, zoning enabling act for how you identify a specific number of rezonings. So, we did do the thorough process of, we went above and beyond what the state requires in terms of identifying the process for the zoning ordinance and the public announcements of, having our multiple meetings, etcetera. And I think that's good feedback because I think if people hear zoning ordinance update, they might not know what that means and they might be more familiar with the terminology of rezoning.

So I think that's good feedback that we can, consider in our future, communications for the city. And so I'll have Kyle, note that to provide to the communications staff of the city, because you're right. We didn't identify it that way. To the some of the other points, I think you both referenced, like, a specific developer. I'm not sure exactly which meaning you're referencing, but we certainly are not favoring developers' opinions over anyone else's, more so that we're caring about the residents and the the I mean, that's our top priority is to make sure that we're listening to the residents and doing this for the residents.

The even though properties may have, additional options for development currently, like, after the zoning ordinance update, it's actually at the resident's choice of what you can do. We're not mandating that you change anything on the zoning. It's just that you now have options as a resident to, what you would like to do with your own property. And then to this density points, I think you can I think, you know, being 11 to the state, that's that's an obvious, I haven't I didn't actually know that, but clearly states that, you know, that we are probably on the higher density? I would say that since we are an entering suburb that is completely built out and we don't have a lot of open space, we have obviously some parks, and some areas like schools and whatnot that are less dense, but, not a lot of undeveloped land, in total.

So that certainly plays a part in that, but, I do know that our our highest density was in 1960 or around then, then, and we had 31,000 residents and we're currently at 19,000. So we're actually only at 63% of our density that we were once, in the city of Ferndale at our our prime time, back in the day. So I just want to make that point about density. And I, think I kinda hit some of the points. I do appreciate the feedback and that you guys came here.

You know, as you said, it can be difficult. I think that it's also a really great agenda to come to because we do have some time to discuss it. So I don't know if anyone else had anything, to respond to.

I'll have to say

what I don't wanna really speak out of turn, being so new. But, you know, when a developer comes here and wants to invest in our community, we do our best to make sure that it fits with, you know, what what we have going on here. Well, like, I think everybody up here knows we have a special city, and, and we wanna keep it that way too as far as I'm concerned. That's why I'm here.

And we we're we all serve on this committee because we love the city and we don't then we have nothing to really we have no incentive to like there's no personal incentive, no to out how to developers. And we're we're we ultimately do what's best for the city. And I do know that the city population is I was just looking at the Ferndale City population in 1960, it was 31,000, 19 70, it was 30,000. Between '19 and then in 1980 and 1990 guys moved in, it was $25,000 and right now we're at just over $19,000 So and it's projected to keep declining as well for by a few hundred people in the next few years as well.

So Unfortunately, household size continues to

Window.

Reduce. And so that's a strain on our in our community just overall, just having less, folks. So I think that is that's an unfortunate thing that we're kinda having to deal with, everywhere, but bigger houses and less people. So since we are recorded, for the folks at home, this question, if that we're allowing for more units on a property, does that, lead to lower household size or lower property sizes, unit size, the household size? And I think that the market is really what is leading anything.

And so, I mean, if it if someone sells their house to a developer and they develop it into a triplex or a quadplex, I mean, they're doing it based on what's the market is demanding. And what we've seen is that folks, you know, are we're we're tending towards smaller household size across the country, and I think particularly in Ferndale. And I don't think that's I think the changes is more of a reflection of the market versus what we're going we're not pushing it in any way. I don't believe by that.

Yeah. So the chair oh,

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

I was

gonna say you may have the same point. Also that the just a a note that the triplex and quadplex in R 1 is a special land use. So it has a separate set of requirements than doing a duplex or a single family house on the property with much higher level of, like, engineering investment from the point of a developer or from a homeowner from developing their own property into a quadplex. So it's not going to be something that someone can just knock down a single family home and, like, build a quadplex out to property lines. It will be, I think, fairly difficult with some of the dimensions of lots in Ferndale for them to be quadplexes.

Three units and an accessory dwelling unit may be more reasonable, but they'll still have I guess, just just to say that it's not, something that could happen, like, overnight that a whole block would become quadplexes. It would be very difficult.

And chair, if I could add on to, what the chair was was saying is we find that, looking at generationally, I know with my parents and I wanna make no assumptions, you know, on you. But, my parents' generation bought a home, raised a family, stayed in that home for decades. And, you know, many times they passed away in those homes. This generation is much more, fluid's not the word, but much more mobile. They're many of them are not interested in owning homes.

They're looking at renting homes or renting apartments. They want the flexibility to be able to be mobile if they change a job. You know, they wanna be able to move from one community to another, easily. So in in my mind, I'm preparing I'm trying to help prepare Ferndale for the next generations of what they're looking for, without trying to compromise the current generations that are living in Ferndale. So, I mean, that that's from my perspective.

I know for myself, I, you know, I live in a home, but I know in the next ten years, I'm probably gonna be moving out into either a condo or an apartment, something where I don't have to maintain the property because living by myself, I it's getting harder and harder on me as I get older to manage a house. And I think a lot of people I'm gen x. I think a lot of people in my generation who are single are looking at the same thing. I think, again, millennials and and gen x or gen z just have a different mindset toward, residency in a in a community.

I think the point is that it allows for more options, but really and so to, commissioner Sabaccatani's comment, is that we still have these form based regulations that these are still meant to look and fit the character of Ferndale because all all of us moved here because we like Ferndale, and that's what we wanna maintain. We wanna maintain the sense of community, we wanna maintain the sense of, the character of our neighborhoods. I I think and we as we've all changed, said that, you know, change is inevitable and there is an evolution because, you know, there are changing, habits and market demands, and so keeping up with them, keeping up with I mean we've also talked about, you know, climate change and all these other issues that we're trying to to move forward, and seeing this as an incremental change towards that, and making some some steps towards benefiting the community overall. So that was, I think where a lot of the changes came from. When I reiterate the point that we had multiple we had multiple community engagement sessions.

There was a lot of public feedback. Very I mean, all I only saw residents joining. We didn't necessarily give the floor to, you know, developers. I know developers come to planning commissions meetings often, but we really did, make a a really big effort to engage the public in these conversations over time. And I know it's hard, and I, I think that we can always strive to do a better job of public education.

And we talk about that a lot here actually. But we we appreciate you coming in and providing your feedback, and we'll continue to, keep it in mind that, we can always do a better job to, be open and educate. So thank you.

If

there's no further comments, we will be talking about, our objectives for the year. Some of that I think will be around education, and continued updates to the zoning rights. It is a living document, something that we wanna make sure that we maintain. And so, Kyle, if you wanna introduce the

Yes. Thank you, planning commissioners. Happy new year. I just wanted to spend a little bit of time discussing any goals and objection objectives that you may have for this coming year. I noticed we didn't do this last year.

I think we're in the midst of, you know, the zoning ordinance process. But, I'm just looking ahead and trying to see if there are any suggestions or anything that you personally would like to, look into for this year. Typically, you know, I'm bringing stuff here and just presenting it, putting it on an agenda, but this is an opportunity if you have anything that you would like to, I guess, eyeball for the, the coming year. So I do have a few, suggestions and a few options, a few things that are, like, part of requirements for, redevelopment ready communities, but we can kind of fine tune them, to our own ends. But, yeah, that that's really all I have for an opening.

So, be happy to discuss any goals.

Well, I

just wanted to start with that we still have some open items from the zoning ordinance update, that we'll continue to work through, and I wanna, kind of make sure that we're on the same page with those. So one being food trucks, Yep. Also the tree ordinance. And I think was there one other section I feel like I'm missing?

Those are the two that come to mind. Like you said, it is living document, so I think we will, in the near future, kinda take a a beat and reexamine it and see how it is going with everybody. But definitely the food trucks and the tree ordinance were the two that's, we talked about as we were closing out the process. I believe the CED director, Roger, has been in contact with some members of the commission to get the food truck, discussion started. And then the tree ordinance is actually in draft form.

I believe it's going through some of the other, channels, you know, city attorney and the ordinance committee.

There was, another item, regarding lot widths that, I'm not sure if we that might be something that we could be potentially be more reactive to if we start seeing a lot of lot combinations so that folks can build these, you know, bigger fourplexes. I I would certainly at that point want to take a look at it, but it might also be something that we can kind of proactively look at. We do have a lot minimum, but not a lot maximum, in our traditional family zoning or strike family, traditional neighborhood zoning, or r two. So that was one thing, that was on my mind. But I think also just as we see folks coming, like we've just talked about is, if we start to see a lot of action that, you know, maybe we think is, and the fact that we didn't necessarily wanna see from the zoning ordinance, we can always bring up those issues at the time.

I don't lot with was one that I was on top of mind that I specifically was thinking could potentially be an issue. But, any other zoning Hornets related goals that anyone has? So my other point I actually had on my list before even we had a call to call and so was, or call to audience was education. I think that, what we've learned over the past few months is that people are feeling in the dark, about what's going on. And I think that just generally, zoning and planning aren't really understood.

And so I'm I don't know how the planning commission is involved in that, but I would be happy to to spend my time and it might be, you know, maybe we have a a group of us that are interested or that can assist the city, and maybe it is, you know, we talked about the newsletter letter that goes out that might be an opportunity where we can have maybe a larger blurb. I know it's also a limited publication that we wouldn't be able to put too much in there, but maybe it links to videos or whatever it might be. But there might be some sort of educational campaign that we can put together.

Yeah. And through the chair, we do periodic, you know, educational events. We have the, I'm blanking on the name, but I have a t shirt of it, where we have the, the classes, where we teach all the different departments.

Burn and learn?

Burn and learn. Thank you.

How could

I forget such a fun name? So, you know, we do that, and we're always looking at ways to expand that and, you know, make the program a little better. I I've noticed, you know, I think we've done it twice now, and it's kind of I don't know if it has grown, you know. So it's, it's not always the most exciting stuff, to be honest with you, but it is important stuff to learn. And I think we can consider ways to make it more exciting.

I know I think personally, I think CD did a pretty good job. We had some interesting games, that could draw people in and, make it a little more interactive, which I think is very helpful. So, you know, maybe that's a little more out of the box and what you were thinking in terms of education, but, I absolutely agree. I think that's something we can hit this year.

Yeah. I think the Fern and Learn is a great program. I've participated in myself. Well, we did a mock planning commission where where had Smurf Village, and it was a lot of fun. So it was a good way, I think, to learn.

Mhmm. And so and I think it's a really great way to get to know other parts of the, community economic development department as well, like building code enforcement, etcetera. But I think maybe something that can reach more people because that is a fairly, participatory and time intensive program, to my understanding.

One of the just an idea is, I we need I know that, like, the way that people consume and get information is way different now than it ever has been and it's only evolving, going to different forums and stuff like that. It's people are getting their information more from there and less from traditional outlets. Another thing is, so we like some some more engagement on where people were on where members of the community are talking might help get the word out a little bit more. And then also possibly, we have a lot of one of the things that Ferndale does does a great job of more better than most communities is having a bunch of, is having a bunch of, like, street fairs and doing, like, there's the DIY, there's pig and whiskey, there's the, there's now the Cinco de Mayo thing that's, there's just a bunch of areas like that and maybe there's inviting people to engage in like a booth over there, it could be just a way to get the word out a little bit more. But I know that, as someone who's been on the planning commission for ten years maybe ten years or so, with a little bit of a break, it's my first time ever hearing a Fern and learn.

So that we're not getting the word out very well on that.

I think, like you said, there are so many different ways to take in information, and you really have to, I think, be looking for it to to yeah. So it is it is so difficult. It makes it more difficult these days.

Yeah. So for me.

Through the chair, I mean, we have a couple of things that are part of our redevelopment, ready communities. So one is the adoption of bylaws. So that is a goal I would like to set for us. We have a draft that, Christine prepared before she left, and it's pretty pretty well there, I would say. I think we were waiting to finalize everything with the zoning ordinance just because some of the changes in that can affect the bylaws.

So, I took a peek at that, last week just to get a sense of it and see how it stands. So that's something I will be bringing forward, at some point this year. I I think given the way we have our format, perhaps I I could bring it, at a meeting as a discussion item, then we can review it and make sure we're on the same page and then, adopt it at a future meeting. The other thing that ROC actually requires, this is a kind of a unique requirement, is that we hold at least one joint meeting a year. So last year, we did hold a joint meeting with the city council to discuss the zoning ordinance.

We also held a joint meeting with, FIAC, that's, Ferndale Accessibility Inclusion, Advisory Commission, just to talk about, you know, their perspective on accessibility issues and what we, as a planning commission can do to shepherd the city in a better direction for those, matters. So I was considering other boards and commissions that we could meet with into a joint meeting kind of as a way to help us learn more about their perspective and how we can, improve things. So some suggestions include the sustainability commission, DDA, also parks and rec. So these all have, like, pretty active boards.

So I don't know

if there's any feedback of a a particular way we wanna go or if there's one that we wanna, go after, but, I I think those are really fun and informative.

My personal opinion is sustainability. And for the bylaws, will we how are we gonna move forward with that adoption?

I'll I'll bring it as a draft. Okay. To a meeting? Yeah.

Okay. And and that's something that we have to vote and adopt on?

Yes. You know, we we don't have the bylaws officially, but, I mean, we have been acting, I would say, in accordance with most of what they say anyway. But it is an ROC requirement that we have them formally to call it a best practice.

Okay. Do you want us to select the joint meeting now, or is that just something to think about?

It's just something to think about or just some, like, feedback. I think we can definitely set it as a goal for our us to to meet this year, but if there's, specific boards, I mean, I think sustainability is a great choice for sure. But if there's any other feedback, I'd be happy to take it.

I think, some of the feedback we heard where some people thought that the sustainability portions of the zoning ordinance update didn't go far enough coming off of our master plan that had a sustainability plan, tied to it.

I've I've heard the same as I made through the chair, I've heard the same thing that it it talked more about, environment and not materials. There was nothing in there that talked about sustainability regarding materials.

So So maybe, like, in the second half of the year and maybe after we've seen a couple of developments under our new zoning ordinance, it might be nice to go over, like, a a case study with the the sustainability committee, just to kind of reflect on our new ordinance to see if there's things that they, you know, maybe want to look at, as we continue to move forward with, amending the ordinance, etcetera. Is there anything else from the RRC? Is there anything else that the commission is looking to make a priority in this year?

There's one thing that I've been noticing more and more just and as I've been now going down it's just because I drive down Woodward all the time. But the South Side Of Woodward is I don't know if the new ordinance will help this or not, and this is more of just a throw an idea out there. But there's a lot of, vacant buildings now on the South Side Of Woodward, like the Rite Aid, the Catholic Church, Tim Hortons, the Emery is gonna be gone soon. There's the two nightclubs. There's that, like, Rent A Center place.

All those places are just for lease. And I'm I don't know if there's something ordinance wise that's making it so these buildings aren't being snapped up or if it's just just the market doesn't isn't favorable to them. It could very well be that. I just but I'm just wondering is there something from an ordinance perspective that you look at it and it's just like parking minimums or or there's something that that is, hiccup.

I I understand where you're coming from. I don't know if if we would get any I mean, if we just had conversations about what we think might be causing it. I'm wondering if we can just contact the property owners and say, hey. We're wondering why this, you know, why Rite Aid hasn't been, you know, occupied. Now Rite Aid is a unique situation.

It's just been recently vacant. Tim Hortons, we know that, you know, a company bought it and they were waiting for, I think, the zoning to be, completed. The rezoning or the

re

Can the

update ourselves or something? Pardon? Update?

The update. Thank you. It was the word I was

looking for.

The update to the to the zoning. And, and, like, the church has just been recently vacated. So those, you know, I I understand, you know, but there are a number of properties, you're right, that are vacant and have been for quite a while. Aaron's, incidentally, is now, occupied. I'm not quite sure what the business is because because it doesn't have a sign, but it looks like it might be like a resale store.

Which building?

The old Aaron's Appliance where it was like a rent to like a rent to center.

Yeah. That's true. So there is a, I believe it's a, like, furniture and other resale shops.

I mean, their windows are just, you know, there's a number of shelves in front of the windows with making that kind of stuff on it. But that's only been recent, like, within the last month.

But I agree. There are

a number of of places that have been vacant, and maybe it is because people have been waiting for, you know, the update to the zoning to be completed. My understanding is that's what Rosie O'Grady's was waiting on. But it wouldn't hurt to understand why property owners aren't getting their properties occupied. What are they waiting for?

We removed the requirement for two stories downtown.

That?

Yeah. I

think it was modified, but I'm not sure. Shoot. There was something on the tip of my tongue right before you said that. That's okay.

I'm just waiting for the ornament. Rosie O'Grady's.

Yeah. I said Rosie O'Grady's. Why Yeah. I don't know if any other properties were

Yeah. I mean, I know at the nightclub, I think you mentioned, that's been taken since

There's before

I got here. We're seeing the open

rumors of, like, significant damage, like, water damage or something in the building that it's, like, an environmental concern.

Yeah. I think that there's just I think there's a lot of structural damage because of it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Used to be Doug's Body Shop back in the day. Loved it when it was Doug's Body Shop.

So but that's something that maybe staff could provide us, like, if there has if you can identify if there's been, like, a number of ZDRs or development requests for the South Woodward. If you can kinda look at it and give us an idea of what might be happening or if we want to do some sort of corridor study at some point this year to talk to building owners what issues they might be having that might we might be able to resolve? Probably not. I don't know. Some point through the year, I know that you're probably transitioning with the loss of Christine.

Mhmm. Anything else that we're

trying to accomplish this year?

Moving down to one meeting a month and not having zoning runs? Anything else on your mind about that, Kyle? Anything you need from us?

No. I think I've I've got a pretty good list here, you know, like, I didn't want a extremely long list, so I think this is pretty good. So I appreciate this. Thank you.

Because ultimately, you would be the one live. Yeah. But you have to do the grunt work.

Next on our agenda, we have item six a, election of officers. And so this year, we have a new officer position, the secretary, as, described by Kyle, in our prior to our meeting. And so the secretary will not be responsible for creating the minutes, but will have a first look prior to them, being posted on the, Granicus or whatever service we're Yeah. Granicus.

Yeah. Through the chair, like, functionally, I see, you know, some of you you take notes to varying degrees. But the secretary would not have to take detailed minutes, but it would be more of I would ask that the secretary keep track of the, like, motions and the votes and who made the, the motion, who made the second, things like that, to see be aware of that. And then when staff prepares the minutes, instead of immediately post them on the website in draft form as we typically do, we would send it to the secretary further. Okay.

I do wanna keep in mind that we are required to post the draft minutes within eight days of the meeting, so there is a little bit of a, you know, time constraint with this process.

And would you expect if the secretary were not able to make it to a meeting, would we have someone stand in, or how does that Maybe the chair or vice chair can take the place of the secretary in that.

Yes. I I think that's perhaps the vice chair.

Yeah. I'm out. I mean, we're gonna be voting on the positions. But in any sense, I'm always taking notes of who's making things, so I can always just assist as well. So

I can always take better notes if I have to.

Okay.

Alright. Well, with that being said, we have chair, vice chair, and secretary. And we are currently one person shy of our nine person, committee commission.

I know we haven't he's not here, but I feel like Michelle might be interested in, at least maybe secretary. Seems like he is interested in having a bigger role, but I'm yeah. I'm speaking for him right now. But that's all. I don't know if

Oh, Oh, can we nominate someone who's not here? I'm not sure.

He seems very passionate. So

I think for Robert's reels, we definitely can. The did you receive any information from him prior to the meeting? He would have seen the agenda.

Yeah. He did not he just let me know that he couldn't be here. He did not express any interest in any of the positions.

Maybe not then.

Could be wrong.

Next time.

Or we could vote them in, and then at the next meeting

Well, I mean, it's also does anybody else who is here want to do that?

Too. We're we're the assumption no one here wants it.

Does anyone here want it?

It's a fairly easy position.

I'll do it next year.

Next year. I'm writing that down. Go for it. Alright. But we don't have to vote on secretary, first.

We also have chair, vice chair. Obviously, I'm serving in the chair position currently and

I nominate you for a chair.

That was quick. Do you want to continue your position as chair?

I am willing and able. Second the nomination. Alright. We have a motion by Polica, second by Azar. All those in favor?

Aye. Aye.

Hi. Alright. Thank you. Thank you. And vice chair Showalter is our current vice chair.

Yeah. I'm I'm, willing to keep on the role if any if you guys wanna vote for me.

Thank you.

I nominate commissioner Scholwalter for vice chair. Second.