City of Ferndale - City Council - City Manager Interviews 2-6-2025

I call this meeting to order at what's my time? 06:04. Please join me and rise for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. May we have a roll call, please?

Johnson?

Here. Kelly? Here. Mikulski? Here.

Polica? Here. Leaksmae?

Here. Approval of the agenda?

Madam, may I move we approve the agenda as presented?

Support. Johnson?

Yes. Polica?

Yes. Kelly?

Yes. Mikulski? Yes. Leaks May.

Yes. And now this we are at the point where I would open it up to call to audience where we allow for an individual to come up to the podium and speak for three minutes on anything on or off the agenda. And we ask that you provide your name and address. So I open it up for call to audience now. Okay.

With that being said days to Oh, he's come. Okay. I think he's getting a

Oh, okay.

With that being said, item five a on the regular agenda is the city manager candidate interviews, and I open it up to James Vitrano to start kick us off here. Thank you. Nice to see you.

Thank you very much, mayor, members of council. We've come a long way since, since we started this process. For the audience that's watching this, after the interviews or during this interviews live, I'll briefly review the process, and then we will talk about a couple housekeeping things, before we get started with our first of three candidate interviews. The city of Ferndale has done a thorough search for manager. We collected, many resumes, many applications.

We reviewed those in closed session as is allowed by the Open Meetings Act with the city council who've brought that candidate number down to something that could be screened reasonably by members of the public, employees, and then tonight for your in person interviews. On Tuesday evening, the all three candidates spend some time with your employees in a Zoom open house and had an opportunity to talk with those candidates. Feedback from that event will be made available to city council members. They also had each candidate had a tour of your city facilities earlier today. They were guided to each of your, various facilities and had an opportunity to meet employees that were at those sites.

At 05:00 this evening, we also had an open house, a meet and greet for the public and any employees who wish to join to meet the three candidates, which brings us to this evening, which is your, in person interviews. The intention is to interview all three candidates this evening and then for you to come back during your regular council meeting scheduled for Monday, to discuss and potentially select your preferred candidate. For this evening, the plan is for me to introduce the candidate, and I will ask the first question which the candidates were given in advance, which is an opportunity for them to introduce themselves to you. After that, I would like or ask that the council ask one of the questions that have been pre prepared. And at this time, I would like to assign those questions if it's okay with you so that then as each candidate comes, you would ask the same question, of them and just go around.

Each time each of you will have an opportunity well, the mayor will ask one question. Each of the other of you will ask two questions. After the when a candidate answers a question, you may ask a follow-up. Please be recognized by the mayor first and then ask any follow-up question that you may have. Please keep in mind that we have, fifty five minutes, approximately fifty five minutes with each candidate, and I'm gonna stay close to that time as possible, which means if we have additional questions or follow-up questions, we may not get to the last question, which is okay, but I just need you to keep that in mind.

If there's time at the very end, you can feel free to ask questions that, you have remaining. It is unlikely we're going to have very much time at the end, for additional questions. So please prioritize your questions or ask them as follow ups if you have one that that you need to ask during the interview. Any questions on my suggested instructions before we assign questions? Alright.

Is there a volunteer for question two?

I'll take it.

Alright. So you'll I'll ask one, you'll ask two, and then, maybe if we go to your left, council member Johnson, three, and keep going to the left, four, five, Laura, six, seven back to council member Johnson, eight, nine back to Laura, ten.

But just a point of clarity, so we're literally going down this list

You ask?

Okay.

Yes. You'll ask your one, but, yes, the whole council will ask all 10 or as far as you get during the interview. 10 questions is approximately what usually is the fifty five minute, mark. But please feel free to ask follow-up questions for clarity. It's important if you have a follow-up to please ask that.

Point of clarity now. With these questions, are we able to ask clarifying questions of each other's questions?

Oh, yes. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. So when a council member asks a question, no matter who it is and the candidate gives an answer, if there's a a follow-up, please just be recognized by the mayor and ask the follow-up at that time.

James, I wanna go back over the assignments of the questions because I think we might have skipped something. So one is you.

Yep.

2 is the mayor. Yep. 3 is me.

Yep.

4 is Greg. Yep. 5 is Laura.

Yep.

6 is Roe.

Yep.

7 is the mayor.

Oh, 7 is you.

7 is me. Oh, okay.

And then I'm 8. Yes.

Yep. Got it.

And maybe the mayor can close out and thank the candidate at the very end. Okay. 9.

9 is Laura. Laura.

Oh, okay.

K.

Okay. Any other questions? Thank you for the opportunity to, to work with the the city of Ferndale. I knew it when I had an opportunity to start this process that that I'd be working with an excellent staff, and I continue to be impressed with your staff, particularly your HR department. I I think I do my job really well.

I know they do their job really well, and it's always a pleasure to to work with them. And and I thank you again for that opportunity. Alright.

What do

you think, Vest? Are you ready? Sure. Alright. So the first candidate you have in front of you, you have the packet.

The candidates, you're gonna stay oh, go ahead.

I don't think I've better than one before.

Very nice to meet you. Welcome.

This is him.

Vester is candidate one, in your pocket, so you can, have his information in front of you. Vester, thank you very much for taking time with us this evening. Thank you for your participation on in Tuesday evening's open house. Thank you for your time today. Your first question that I'll start with is we've asked you to prepare a three to five minute, presentation of yourself to introduce yourself and provide the reasons you believe you'll be successful as, Ferndale's next city manager.

The floor is yours.

Thank you. Can everyone hear me okay?

Yes.

Alright. I always like to make sure I'm a little bit off spoken at times.

Mike's on.

So mic mic is on. Okay. Okay. A little bit closer. Okay.

So, yes. Vester Davis, candidate for the position. My background in local government has been, you know, well versed over the past ten years working in a number of communities beginning in the, city of Grand Haven to Lakeshore as an intern and then begin and then progressing to the assistant to, manager position. After four years of, gaining experience and working with a number of departments, I decided that I would venture out and, move to the city of Staunton, Michigan, where I served as city manager for approximately two and a half years, wearing many hats. As you do not only just the manager you asked to do zoning you asked to do, working with the DDA.

You're asked to work with many different departments. So I began to, you know, add a lot of tools to my toolbox. And, after a successful two and a half years there, I moved on to the city of Springfield, as a city manager, which is located down in Central Michigan. Population about 5,200 some odd people. But, nonetheless, again, we're adding tools to my toolbox as a city manager.

So, like I said, I'm well versed in in many different areas, but, gained a lot of, interest and skills. So, as far as working with the city of Ferndale, this city has been on my radar for the past couple of years, prior to your most recent, city manager. The appeal is more so the the diversity diversity and inclusiveness of the community. Just tracking the, you know, the history and the last decade or so, was very attractive to me. And I felt like the time was right for me to submit my, resume and, you know, as for consideration as for the city manager position.

So I think

Thank you for your time. Alright.

Alright. So my question to you, mister Davis, in your view, what makes a city like Ferndale successful, and how would you ensure Ferndale achieves or maintains that standard?

From what I've learned is you all are you know, listening to the residents. You know, that's a very, big point of emphasis when it comes to community, the leaders that are in your seats, you know, hearing everyone's out who are now and also just make up of the staff. You know, I got to spend some time with the staff members here, and we have a diverse group of staff members with different years of experience. But all these guys, you know, they're working on a good concert together, to make this interview process, very, very well done. So kudos to your staff for it for that.

And if that's as a sign of, you know, of what's to come then, you know, I think that's, will be awesome. As far as the community, you know, and I said, you all have been responsive, to, the the input from staff from from our community members. And, it seems like there's some, really positive projects ahead to move Findo into the right direction. There's gonna be some tough, discussions that will need to be had, but, nonetheless, if we work together and we're, being communicative to the, citizens, I think there's some, good things in the in the future.

Thank you.

Alright. Mister Davis, how would you describe your management and leadership style? Please identify both strengths and weaknesses related to your management and leadership approach.

Okay. I I like to decide describe my management style as more of a humble leadership. I'm very humbled by, you know, the the work that the staff members, you know, assist me with. I like to be open as I was mentioning to during the meet and greet. You know, I have over the last almost ten years of work to small communities, and that's really, built me up to, you know, to be able to listen, you know, listen to my staff members, you know, learn from them.

I'm always open to learning. But I also always leaned on, what I consider four c's, which is being communicative, collaborative, creative thinking, and being creative in terms of how we solve issues. You know? I've I've shared that way where I've gone. I've been able to, like I said, listen to staff when it comes to being creative in solutions to to issues.

Also just being collaborative. You know? What it's not just me and the manager's office. You know? Who and what staff members can I draw from and include and and when it comes to, addressing issues, you know, as a team environment?

You know, even looking with the city council, you know, I think the more we work together, we can address many of these issues that, you know, I've discovered just through my my listen to staff on this tour, and we, perform today. And then just being communicative, you know, sharing my insights, listening to, what staff members have to say, and set everyone up for success, you know, isn't if there's a coaching, my approach is to be to coach staff as well. I think we have a lot of, staffing because they have a lot of great experience. So they don't have to just rely on me telling them what to do is me just coaching, you know, putting people in the right position and, answering any questions that they may have. I guess and then the next part of your question, can you repeat that, Donnie?

Yes. So identify the strengths and weaknesses related to your management and leadership approach.

I I think the strength is in my leadership as being a humble leader is that, you know, I'm I'm open, you know, open to and having conversations. My door is always open for us to, to to address issues, to consult staff members. I think the weakness area is probably going to be, you know, how to it is, I guess, the inspiring part of, staff members because sometimes I know I was recognizing, you know, what how am I inspiring staff members, or, you know, the work that I've done. I'm not a a bragger, I I guess, by choice. So I don't know how to really say, like, I did this.

It's more I'm always looking at the team. How do we how do we accomplish, goals? One example of that is, you know, much recent community that I worked for where it was just me producing ideas on ways that that, recognizing staff and saying, hey. Let's, you know, benefits. You know, how do we educate our staff members on the benefits that we offer.

And so I was suggestive in that regard, but I didn't take the credit. I just let my finance director take the credit, run with it, and just offer suggestions as we went along in the process of putting together pamphlets and information to better educate staff because some of our staff members didn't have, you know, paid close attention, but they were aging and with the and they were aging through their career without looking at their, benefits. So with that, we were recognized by MERS, the Michigan, as a retirement system. We were awarded given an award this past, conference. So, you know, sometimes it's just lobbying or, you know, giving people opportunities to showcase their work and what they're doing and just always trying to put the we instead of me, forward.

Thank you.

What do you consider essential in the relationship between a city manager and the city council, and how will you facilitate a productive relationship with city council?

Definitely. Thank you for the question, Greg. It's actually just being transparent. You know, I, offer a weekly report to the, city council and or to how often you all would like to have you don't receive reports on what's happening I've had it the city council's where they say, you know, you know Once a month or twice a month. However, the frequency is but definitely just sharing information You know, I want to make sure that you are well informed on any major issues You never hear me okay with the microphone.

Yes. Okay

Yeah, just provide a weekly report on what's happening with throughout the different departments, throughout the city. Any big issues, being open, you know, to text and email or phone call. However, you are, you can get a hold of me. Just making sure that our lines of communication are open. I found that to be very successful Sometimes it's even me just sharing information about hey, I'm going on vacation or this is what's happening with, you know, either my my life with kids and stuff.

So I just make sure there's work life balance and, you know, you all are informed, and any questions that come across, I can answer them as best as possible. And I think that's even helpful for staff on the department aspect of making sure that, you know, the the city council is aware of, you know, what's happening just with the tour that I had today, you know, just relaying some of those information with the feelings of some of the staff to hey. This is what's gonna be coming down the pipeline here in the soon. This is kinda what I've learned, just staying in communication with department heads. And like I said, I don't want you all to be caught off guard or, unaware of anything that that comes up here in the city.

Thank you.

My next. Please describe your commitment to equity inclusion efforts and your experience working with a diverse community.

So as I answer these questions, please, if I missed the second part because I'm locked in on to the first part of the question, just let me know. But as far as equity and inclusion, you know, we've there's been some some changes recently at the federal level, in terms of how you go about, you know, equity and inclusion. And so, well, what I would do is just make sure that, you know, upholding those four eyes and, all the information that was shared on Tuesday, with me in terms of, The mission and values of the community as far as equity and inclusion, you know, definitely keeping myself abreast of any type of mandates that come down from the federal level making sure we are striving to view those mandates and then how does it fit into what we do and who the city of Findlay is and keeping that Equity inclusion going forward. Also striving to keep myself trained up on, you know, that those areas to make sure that we are, upholding the the equity inclusion, culture that has been set already here in the city of Ferndale. So I don't like to say I know everything.

So sometimes it may take, Dan or whomever to, you know, make sure that I'm doing my my part to, meet the standard that has been served by city council. I don't think that I'm perfect, but I do aim to to make sure that, if there are resources that need to be shared, then make sure everyone, you know, is getting a fair shot at the information that we're sharing on our website or however, but we're being equitable and inclusive to all the voices of the community. I was very impressed by just even the open house tonight where you are being inclusive to everyone's voices. Even they're going doing the tours again, that was impressive. But also just, you know, listening is is a big key to that.

Most times residents, they'll let you know if they didn't get some information or they, you know, areas that we can improve on to make sure that everyone is, has the opportunity to participate in local government. So, with that being said, it is gonna take a a team effort to make sure that, you know, we're being equitable, inclusive across the board in all our departments and and the services that we provide.

Can we drill into that for just a second? So reaching out to the community and getting them included. Can you tell me about a time that you've done that?

Oh, often. You know, survey, like, I mentioned before, was established, you know, is going out into the communities actually going to door to door being able to be in smaller communities. I've I've I've gone that side where I've gotten phone calls from Residents and either they were unable to, come into City Hall. You know, I've gone into, ask them, you know, what's your address? What's you know, we what time good time to reach you?

And I'll even come up to your door and say ask you answer any questions that you a resident may have, whether they didn't understand something that was being shared by the city. And that's just, you know, I guess the benefit of being in a smaller community is you can do that. And being a larger community, I I hope this and we'll live to continue that, you know, as being responsive to, any, questions that come from from, the residents. So that was just one. I'm sitting down in, in in the house of this older woman who, in the city of Springfield who was just fearful of coming into the city hall.

It just wasn't that she can she was unable to come in, but she also just didn't like coming to city council meetings either to express to to share her thoughts, you know, on city matters. So she would call me and, you know, I would actually come over sitting sit in her living room and answer a few questions from her about, you know, hey. I got a question about this. You all did this at the city council meeting. And, you know, I I really value that.

You know? It's like, well, although it did take two hours, I would say I had to find a way to get out of her house. But I asked her to see we both left the meeting where she felt informed. I felt like she was informed on the city government and what was taking place, and, it is really going end to end in terms of service delivery. So, when it comes to that, you try to make time as a manager if it's possible, or you schedule some time to to meet with with, residents.

So you don't want anyone to feel like they were, not hurt or unable to to reach, the city to to get their questions, answered.

Great. Thank you. Yeah.

The city is focused on building a positive employee culture among staff at all levels. What is your experience with intentional building and maintaining a positive culture for an organization?

Well, I I again, I have to find some things that you will say, wow. You can really do that as a manager? But, no, being the grill master, you know, I've sponsored, you know, cookouts for staff members. You know, my staff has been, you know, up to 20 people. Some of my people are so I usually do the beginning of summer cookout or the end of summer cookout, Grilling burgers and dogs with staff members building meeting with staff members.

I'm one that you know enjoys humor. I see you have the the Comedy Store across the street so we're trying to find ways of you know, be laugh with I know our jobs are serious, but find ways to to make it to have some humor about it, you know? So I like to try to keep things lighthearted as possible, although we're doing serious work and serious tasks, but you want everyone to feel good. So I'm always checking the temperature of the staff members, you know, just going getting around to different departments, meeting with staff members where they're at going into their spaces, you know, not just having meetings in my office, but having even just a large team, group meetings. You know?

Let's let's talk about, you know, if we have some issues or something, a project that we're working on, make it large enough to to to get those voices heard of, like, sometimes you get some great ideas just to just do the conversation. So just finding ways to to, keep things lighthearted. Sometimes it may be staff members that are really good at planning parties if we have a party for whatever reason, you know Just finding different ways to build the culture I like to have a culture where you know, everyone's you're working together and you know, if someone's not feeling too well, hey. Let's have a conversation about it. So I've learned about a few different coffee shops, whether it's getting out of the office, meeting in different places throughout the city.

You know, we've done that as well. I've had experience doing that as well where, you know, it was a all city. They're all place. We're invited to the party and, you know, having a good time. So like I said, just finding ways to bring people together, keeping things like how it is, you know, being open and being laughed at yourself, you know, so all types of ways.

But and, you know, those are opportunities to for me to continue to to learn as a manager is how do you keep things going. You want to you know, everyone enjoy coming to work and not being upset or disgruntled, you know, about coming to coming to to, into the workplace. So

Okay. Excuse me. How have you successfully addressed financial challenges in your previous roles? I'll ask both questions, and then we'll I'll remind you of the second half. Okay.

Can you provide an example of how you transparently communicated budget decisions to stakeholders?

Similar to what you all have done is definitely, you know, different having communication with our well, different levels of communication. How are what are our, tools that we have in our toolbox to relay information. And then what type of information are we trying to relay in which, communication medium would be the most impactful, and the the one that gets covers the most, people. So with that, I think it's doing it's working with the different departments that that need to be involved in the communication, whether it be the finance department, you know, creating graphs, whether it's creating graphs, it's a FAQ document, just whatever having a diverse toolbox when it comes to delivering information, because not everyone is gonna read through a a document. So sometimes it's including the pictures, the the infographics, whatever the case may be to to spread the word.

And then this is just the groups that you have to go into, if there are community organizations, you know, that, need to be in, to share that information, the schools, if that's, an opportunity, or if it's, me and doing a podcast, you know, that's even, been helpful in in some experiences. I actually went to a training that was being put on by our access, public access, in in down in the city of, Battle Creek and, got training for podcasting. So, you know, the way people consume information is is, across the board. So if you get some some skills and, upscale yourself to be able to deliver the information is very important. And then just learning, you know, how is the the information received?

I I think that you are and the the website that you were is very informative. That's how I gained information about the Headley, votes that that took place this past November was that there was a lot of information that was shared on there. And I've you know, even to a manager, it takes some work to understand heavily in the in the history of it, and you say, oh, I can go right to your website and get all the information that that's needed. So, remember, like I said, it's, over and over, you you to to almost, ad nauseam to to inform people, to be informative. And like I said, just doing your history, your understanding of the different avenues that, information can be shared and is consumed today.

Recovering your bases, you know, is the most important. And I think you all do a fantastic job at that, your communications department.

Thank you. So, you know, I'd like to get back to the the first part of the question is, you know, the communication part, you covered that really well. How you know, thinking about specific examples of financial challenges that you've actually encountered, how have you gone about addressing those, like a headway situation or, you know, these sorts of things?

Just looking looking at our funding let's see. In the last couple of years, we've replaced, several, big ticket items in our, fleet for our public works. And so what we did was we've been, we increased our, the contributions from our other departments to the vehicle, vehicle fund to, increase the amount of funding that is available to make those purchases because each one of our vehicles was close to, you know, 203 hundred thousand dollars. And, what we did was we wanted to do was replace all those vehicles that are old from the oldest to, oldest vehicle going forward. And that set us up for success to have a pretty much brand new fleet for the next ten, twenty years.

And so with that, now we are able to decrease the the amount of money that's being allocated from each department, and let those funds go back into the appropriate funding, and they no longer have to contribute to the the vehicle fund. And that was a very successful program. We had to get out of the dark ages. We had, like I said, just some vehicles that were no longer, appropriate to for operations, to be quite honest. With that, we also, expanded our public works facility, with the by by bonding for those improvements.

So we went by council, and we went through the whole process to to cover those expenses, which, you know, I I see that being, priority for the city of Farndale. I don't wanna get too down in the weeds, but just doing my own tour the tours a day, you know, I think that's gonna be those are some of the priorities that should be, set for the city. They said to improve those facilities because if a small city like the city of Springfield can do it, then I think the city of Ferndale can do it as well. Just take some more planning, but those will be some some slam dunks. And with it being fresh in my mind and how we approach it in the city of Springfield in terms of, the finances, I think it can be implemented here.

So that, would be one of the things that I would bring here to the city of Front does. This is how we're doing it. Let's bring it up the approach, the financial planning aspect to it, and utilize, you know, our financial tools that we have, to come up with a plan, plan of action. So one of those, like I said, is bonding for it, working with our local banks to to make that happen. But as you all are, you know, going after is a, a millage to to cover those ex some of those expenses as well.

So it's a variety of different tools. Like I mentioned, you can allocate funding from your, other funds for, or you can borrow as well, from other funds. So we like I said, we just came to a game plan of different contributions or allocations from different, funding, sources to to make those projects happen.

Thank you.

Sorry. I need to finish up a note here.

Yeah. I know. Alright. And, you know, I know we're not always looking at you while you're answering because we I we're all kind of jotting notes. So

Oh, no. I think

that please don't take that personally.

No. I'm getting used to it now. Of it, I'm like, did I answer that question completely or not? And those different pieces.

We're going old school this time.

Thank you for letting me pause there. In your past roles, or, sorry. It reads funny. In your past roles or projecting to what you will do at Ferndale, how have you or will you try to manage community growth in a way that preserves community character and supports housing affordability? Can you provide a specific example of what you have done or would plan to do as a city manager?

I'll I'll do my best, with that one, Greg. I I think it's a lot of having dialogue with city council, you know, and I was having just some some, strategic planning conversations about, you know, what do you all hear? What do you want to see, with the community's input, you know, doing some survey and work? We were speaking with, some resident before tonight's interview, you know, it was like, well, what do you do when you don't have any more, you know, land available? And you kinda have to start talking about other opportunities for vertical growth.

You know you know, that's the next step. You know, it's only so much land that's in the city within the city limits, and you some places they don't lend to sell to vertical growth, and let's, begin a plan for that. Some some aspects of the city, I think you have to have maybe some planning involved from the planning commission and then, those folks to where it doesn't lend itself. You know, it's like, okay. Let's see where it doesn't, where it doesn't, and, you know, have conversation, have some dialogue about it, and leave it on a cutting room floor or or and then pursue.

You know, let's do some goal setting around, you know, those vertical opportunities so that that that that information is shared into a private sector, and we can draw some, development, you know, to the area. But, nonetheless, like I mentioned, you're just gonna you you go to the city limits and you squeeze the most out of the land that's available to you and, see if those that if it works for the, residents, and if you they can come into agreement with you, answer their questions. And some people sometimes the community members just wanna know a little bit more about what does it look like. And I've had that I put that that occur in, you know, in my travels and local government is, what does it look like? If you start coming with the renderings, they don't wanna the the community doesn't wanna hear me just talk about it or council talk about it, but just show me a little bit.

And and sometimes having, the display opportunity the the opportunity to display what it looks like can calm some waters, you know, sometimes. But if you wanna talk about growth, you have to start talking about, the vertical structures in the within the city. One of the another example that I shared was, you know, I was assistant too in Grand Haven and, you know, only place you can go is was into the water, you know, and they were having conversation about growth. And, eventually, we got to the point where it was understood that they had to go vertical. You know, we wanted to protect sight lines for, those that, you know, own property along the waterfront.

But nonetheless, you know, eventually, it came to a several several iterations and a lot of discussion and years of planning, but I think they've reached that point now. So, it is possible. It just takes having a dialogue and showing some of the, have renderings of what does this look like in my neighborhood. And sometimes that that helps in listening to the feedback that you get from the residents and, you know, take a little bit off of here or setting the limits. You know, those are some of the statements that may be shared from the residents.

Thank you. Yep.

Oh, you're up, Laura.

Can you please describe your experience with modernizing public buildings and addressing aging infrastructure? Second part of that question is going to be what challenges did you encounter, and how did you overcome them?

I I kinda answered this a little bit ago, but, you know, I I don't wanna give you my full reaction to some of the facilities, you know, we saw today, but it's like we have to stop band aiding, some of the I guess I'll have the conversation with City Council of some of the band aids that have occurred over the past Decades and how they're impacting, you know, the the morale of staff and saying hey, let's just put together a plan and once you put together a plan of action, then you can talk about the funding and but if you don't have a plan you just dream and it's never gonna happen I think it's necessary, you know just for efficiencies when we talk about that infrastructure and improvement But nonetheless, you know That's been my experience and I talked about our public works for series and you know in the city of Springfield where we've just made those improvements and is, You know been very very well received, You know? Everyone's staff is, moving and grooving. The the morale is there. It's it's high. You know?

And, nonetheless, it's a work environment, period. I think we all have had experiences where you say, wow. Working in a dungeon is not fun. You know? And so to improve the facilities and land on those, you get better staff, better outcome, better service delivery by improving it.

But, nonetheless, like I mentioned, starting with a plan, having the conversation, having the input from staff to where their wants and needs and, you know, addressing the needs more so than the the ones and, you know, making an investment, you know, you're making an investment and not only into your staff, but also into the community for the years to come. And, you know, I think there's it's time for some of the facilities to take a take a hard look at it, and overall, you know, 30,000 foot view of, you know, buildings and and and where they're situated and so forth. So, I think did did I answer that question completely? Or can you repeat that?

I think you answered it totally. Yeah.

I think some some some, business can be retrofitted like city hall. You you've done a a great job of maximizing the space in here. But some spaces, you know, it's like, well, we could probably, maybe wanna revisit that, you know, where there's been public works or, some others.

Thank you. Yep.

This is gonna be two questions. How do you ensure open communication and transparency with residents, city council, and other stakeholders? Second is, can you share an example of a time when you built or rebuilt trust within a community?

I will start with number two with building trust in the community. You know? As I stated my my Type of leadership is humble leadership where I come open Being transparent answering any questions that come forward or doing the research to answer the question, you know, sometimes I'm asked, you know, what are my thoughts or what a situation and being respectful to the different parts of the organization where it's either a council decision or employing a resident to come forward and, you know, share their thoughts or someone. Sometimes they wanna meet outside of the meeting. You know, maybe they're not comfortable with, standing up at the podium or and, addressing council, but, just working with them and then making sure that their voices are heard.

And so bringing that forward to city council and one of the examples is that just, you know, is listening to people, you know, and where I'm at in the city of Spring where I was at in the city of Springfield, you know, there were other communities that was chaos. And just being a steady, you know, listener and being responsive to, residents' concerns and, taking city council's, message and maybe putting it in a way, you know, how decisions get made, sharing that information with with the account with, residents. It made it a little bit more palatable sometimes. Sometimes people don't understand local government and how decisions are are made, and so breaking it down and spending the time, like I said, having the open door policy where literally my door is open and literally having the experience where I you come right into my office when you come into the city hall, you know, it it is, people value that. And I think that build trust, you know, and I'm not trying to be misleading.

I'm gonna give you the information that I know, and I'm gonna give you the information that, city council decisions, how those are made, why they're made from my, purview. Sometimes I'd, you know, if I don't understand it, I've even asked city councils, you know, in the middle of a meeting. Can you explain that to me? You know, we've I've had city councils just vote no on issues, and I had to say, you know, city council, you said no voting no, but there was no reasoning. Please provide a little bit of reasoning so then sometimes it makes it, better for, presidents to understand, you know, your perspective a little bit, better as to why you voted the way you voted.

And sometimes they can respect that a little bit more versus it being, just a clear no vote. So just, not saying that about you, but sometimes it's so it counts as a little bit of education as to, you know, experiences that I've had that, you know and residents telling me why they were disgruntled or they'd find mistrust in local government because a decision may get made with no explanation. So, as far as, number one, I think I code that too is, you know, having a weekly report. My report is shared with the, city council. And then, like I said, just answering the questions, being a great listener, practicing those listening skills that I've learned, not only through my education, but just it's a natural, ability to to to listen and, you know, clarify any questions that I may have and, being responsive to to residents.

And that's how you kinda build trust and maintain trust. And it's, also going to trainings and and keeping myself, informed of the latest, and, I'll stop right there.

Real quick drill down, and I promise I will keep this very brief. And I I would hope you keep this brief too. Imagine you have sixty seconds to pitch complex policy idea to a busy council member. How do you structure your message, and do you use certain frameworks or methods to structure your communication when delivering time sensitive information?

Because, respecting their time, respecting that they, don't they have other things going on. And so as quickly as possible is is it a big deal big issue or a small issue is how I'm taking care of it and, whether or not they need to worry about any type of blowback or any type of other, repercussions that may come with it. So just, understanding that scale scalability of the issue and letting them know that I'm addressing it or it's being addressed. It'll I'll give a fee, update within the next, fifteen, twenty minutes once I know a little bit more about the situation. But, like I said, the scalability of the local problem, big problem, what it is, how how it's being addressed right now, and then update, will be forthcoming, in a matter of minutes once I know a little bit more.

Great. Thank you.

We do have a couple more minutes if any, city council member or the mayor has another follow-up or anything else you would like to ask of the candidate.

Follow ups based on what you've

Hearing none, Fester, we don't have a lot of time left, but if you have a a I'd ask you to prioritize maybe a question that you have, for the city council to address this evening. I'll ask that you ask that now.

How is your, you know, working with the, your relationship with the city manager's office? How do you all, you know, relationship? What do you look for? Is it weekly reports? How often do you all like to be engaged, I guess, in what's happening at the city level, or operation level?

Do you have any feedback on on that?

I will start with that. We do have what's called monthly one on ones with the city manager, where they give us an update as far where he gives us an update as to what's happening in the city, what's coming forward, and maybe try to check our pulse as to how we feel about the initiatives moving forward. As well as, it could be, any any given time, well, where the city manager will send us information and let us know, if there's an emergency in the city and it can happen maybe on the weekends, it can happen in the evenings, it can happen at any given time. So it's important, for, as far as the city manager and the council member's relationship to be, like you like you've stated, to be open and providing that information and being open to us getting in touch with you, regarding concerns that we may have at any given time. So, like what you said regarding the open door policy because we would need somebody that has that at any given time.

If anyone else wants to add?

Yeah. So, generally, to add on to, Mayor Lise may, comment. Generally, when any type of an emergency event happens, a police or a fire event happens, generally, a text or an email depending on the time of day. If there's something that happens within the community that, we think we may end up getting a number of phone calls from residents, just to make sure that we're aware of. That's usually the the lines of communications that I I like to make sure that that we have and we continue to have.

I tend to be a very high needs council member. I am in far more regular communication with the city manager just asking questions, you know, sharing ideas or thoughts that I've had, especially as relates to our budget, our finances. It's what I do for a living during the day as well, for the city of Detroit. So, I think of stuff at work sometimes, and I'll be like, oh, this might be useful. And so I tend to, like, be sending thoughts and ideas and having a dialogue, with the city manager.

So I have a a kind of a I like someone who can kind of have that regular working relationship as well. I mean, we have our one on ones and we have the emergency communications, but one on ones are once a month. And that's not a lot of time for us to actually dialogue and talk about what our thoughts are about what we're looking for for the city and stuff. So I try to keep a essentially, an ongoing conversation. You know, I'm not like that annoying, girlfriend who won't stop texting you, but I'm I close.

And where Donnie is high needs, I'm immediate needs. I do not like scheduled meetings. I don't have time for scheduled meetings. I tend to text quickly or make a quick phone call, which is why I ask about a sixty second pitch for complex ideas. I have very limited time during the day.

If you get me, you get me, and you get me right then, and you have a couple of minutes to get information across.

And I just like to be in the know. So, you know, I think it's important to have open communication, and I like to find out from my city manager what's going on and not from residents or, you know,

Facebook. Yeah.

So I think it's very important to be available.

Also, what I didn't mention is that I'm just trying to think of the term as far as the agenda mapping. Mhmm. So so we are, accustomed to agenda mapping so things can be happening down the line that maybe within the next couple months. But, we are accustomed to receiving that information, something along the lines within the next three two to three council meetings that we can expect that we can expect coming forward. So, just things like that too are are something that we use to communicate and keep our communication lines open.

And this is typical for myself as well as, making sure, you know, by the time it gets to the agenda and it's time for a decision, you heard about it, you know, at least three to four times I've mentioned it, whatever that item is, especially when it's something major or something big, we're gonna have some robust conversation about it that you've either heard about it, thought about it, or, you know, and then it's decision making time and it's on the agenda, for, you know, approval or denial. So.

Alright. With that, pastor, thank you very much for your time, for your interest in the position. I'd like to give you the last, thirty seconds to a minute to leave any final thoughts that you would like to to have the city council and those watching hear from you before, before we close the interview.

Awesome. Well, thank you again, James. Thank you to the city council and and the staff for, you know, the hospitality. I'm very, impressed by, you know, the staff members that you do have. I think that there's some amazing projects that you have coming up in the future and, once the funding is available.

But, you know, once those get accomplished, I think that, you know, you'll have it even happier or the the the staff members would be, very, very much thankful in some of the departments like the fire, the police, and public works. Nonetheless, like I said, I've always looked at Ferndale as being a a very, inspirational, miss municipality in terms of your, diversity and inclusiveness. There's not many communities like this in the state across the state of Michigan, so, you know, kudos to yourself and, keep it going in terms of being, you know, an example for other communities throughout the state of Michigan. So thank you again.

Thank you, Vester.

Thank you.

For city council, you can go on about five minute or eight minute recess before we bring in the next candidate.

Oh, wow.

I got you all warmed up with them. Gave you the most complex one there, Greg.

Sometimes my tongue don't work right.

Alright. Ready when you are. Well, thank you very much, mayor, members of council for our second interview. Colleen has joined us and and, again, she went through the same opportunities as all the candidates, the Tuesday, afternoon, evening Zoom meetings with employees, the tour of the facilities today, and the meet and greet. Consistent with how we did each of the interviews, I will ask the first question.

Each of you have been assigned one or two questions, and you will just ask them in order. At the end, I will will be here to kind of lead us towards that time limit that we have both by asking if you have additional questions or if the candidate has a question, and then allowing their close. As a reminder, please feel free to follow-up, ask for clarification following a question. And as for the candidate, please feel free to ask for, it to be reread if you need it. Alright.

So we're gonna get started. You ready?

Yes. Alright.

We've asked you to prepare a three to five minute presentation that introduces yourself and the reasons you believe you will be successful as Ferndale's next city manager. The floor is yours.

Thank you. Well, first, I'll start by I'm a very tech driven individual, so hopefully it's acceptable. I did formally write a statement, and I will be taking notes on my laptop throughout. I was first attracted to the position because I'm familiar with Ferndale's reputation for being a vibrant, engaged, and inclusive community. As a visitor to community on past occasions, I can always say that my family felt welcomed and excited to be here.

After having an opportunity to discuss the position and review the candidate profile, my interest was further solidified seeing how the community articulated its values to the type of candidate you sought. It is very apparent that your core values are not just words on paper, but real drivers for how actions are taken within the organization. I see my personal and professional values as being well aligned with the cities in this regard, particularly as it relates to integrity and inclusivity, but certainly not exclusive of innovation and inspiration. The intentionality behind your efforts to promote equity in particular are evidence of the reality of these acts. Ferndale is a community that places those values at the core of its decision making process.

This is the type of organization that I wanna be a part of. More than that, this is the type of community where I feel confident that my family will be welcomed. As my wife and I look carefully at where we wanna raise our young children and the kind of example we wanna set, that sense of inclusivity and cultural vitality set Firm Dale apart. The integrity and ownership taken by leadership to drive positive change puts this community community in a category all of its own. In addition to feeling personally aligned with the city's vision, my professional experience has prepared me for the challenges that lay ahead for Ferndale.

And Ferndale has challenges ahead, no doubt. How to respond to the expiration of the Headley override without compromising the community's values will require an experienced manager. I understand that the city is pursuing a revised task to the community for an upcoming election. But whatever the course taken, it will be a delicate task requiring a thoughtful and transparent approach. As to why I feel it would be an excellent fit for this position, I bring with me seventeen years of professional experience that includes nearly eight and a half years of experience as a city manager in two other Michigan municipalities.

These experiences have prepared me to manage a full suite of municipal services with particular strengths in financial administration, economic development, community engagement, project management, and infrastructure planning. Embracing the core value of innovation, my background also includes experience launching and developing support programs for early stage technology companies. More recently in the city of Saline, I managed a comparable budget with a similar set of municipal services offered to residents. Recognizing the need to implement long range strategies, I led the city of Saline on its course to its first ever multiyear strategic plan. And I have championed an asset management based approach to capital planning and maintenance that is moving the city away from a reactionary agency to a proactive one.

Fiscally, I have faced relevant challenges to both the city of Durand and the city of Saline. At the start of my tenure in the Durand, the city had experienced three consecutive years of general fund expenditures exceeding revenues and a quickly depleting fund balance reserve. These resulted in a need for a treasury approved corrective action plan. Through a very thoughtful and diligent process, I worked with the council to identify efforts that stabilized the general fund within one year and which by year three had general fund balance reserves restored even in excess of our targets. Similarly, in Celine coming out of COVID, the city was on a trajectory of fund balance reserve losses that would have nearly depleted the fund by f y twenty six.

Instead, working with our finance department to present a series of correction action plans, we identified a combination of cuts, cost savings, and new revenue opportunities. Equipped with that information, council was able to write a clear direction on the changes that wish to see implemented. This past audit cycle, we were pleased to report a roughly 34% fund balance reserve had been achieved along with a much more stable future trajectory. Knowing that Ferndale will seek to move forward with their revised milling task, I'm prepared to face that challenge as well. I have experienced both with seeking and securing voter approved millages and extensive charter amendment changes through proactive, consistent, and transparent community engagement.

Additionally, I'm aware that the city will need a manager who's prepared to address upcoming union negotiations. I have negotiated seven unique contracts, several wage reopeners, and navigated both mediation and arbitration challenges during my career. I'm very comfortable in the negotiation seat and approach reaching consensus with a level head and common sense. None of the work accomplished during my career has been mine alone, though. I'm an open and collaborative manager who finds value in building my teams up for success.

I seek to be build consensus wherever possible and champion personal and professional growth from my team. From the earliest days of my career managing a neighborhood development organization, I've always cherished the opportunity to build relationships and active partnerships to solve problems. Whether that be council leadership, staff, or members of the community, I'm not the type of manager to make decisions or recommendations in a silo. Welcoming new ideas and new voices to the table enriches the process and invariably yields stronger public policies and programs. At the end of the day, this process is all about finding the right fit, affording you all the opportunity to learn about me and me the chance to better understand the leadership team here.

I'm excited to be a part of this process and learn whether mine might be a voice that has a future to play in Ferndale.

Thank

you. Alright. Colleen, I'll be asking the first question. In your view, what makes a city like Ferndale successful, and how would you ensure Ferndale achieves or maintains that standard?

I think Ferndale already has a fantastic foundation for success, and that comes from its core values. I am very earnest when I say every community needs to understand what its core values are and hold to them ardently. Staff needs to be on that same page. Council needs to be on that same page. Really, that's where collaborative problem solving is born from.

If we all have the same vision, if we're working in the same direction, it's understandable, and we can pass the fact that we may have different ways of getting there, but we all know we're on the same team. And in that regard, I would say you have to put trust in the team and trust in the process. Everybody needs to understand their roles and responsibilities and step up to them when it's necessary. This, in in my opinion, helps to create a sense of place for your staff, but it also helps to solidify the identity for your community. I think that's one thing that is very apparent in Ferndale.

It's something that I would wish to champion while I was here is that Ferndale has an identity, and that shouldn't be lost.

Thank you.

How would you describe your management and leadership style? Please identify both strengths and weaknesses related to your management and leadership approach. Certainly. I

would say I'm a very open and collaborative leader. I believe in gives giving staff the space that they need to do their work, and I always start from a place of trust. These are my subject matter experts, and they're the people that have been entrusted to do this work, and I know that they are there to be my team members. I would also say that I have a very fair minded approach to solving problems or issues when they arise. I am responsive and adaptable.

Regarding strengths, from a management perspective, I would say one of my greatest strengths is probably, coming from a place of humanity. Recognizing that at different times in different people's lives, they may be facing challenges whether in work or in their home life. They need to have a little grace given to them. I don't believe that, people should be written off as a bad employee just because something goes wrong. I wanna understand what happened, what they need to grow as an employee if they're in

the right role within the organization, if they're

happy with the role that they have within the organization. And to And to me, that all starts with constant open lines of communication with my team. And then regarding a weakness, I wouldn't view it so much as a weakness, but an opportunity for me in the future. I haven't yet had the opportunity to go through the I c m ICMA, city manager credentialing process. That's something I very much wish to do in my next role.

I believe it's an opportunity to identify further strengths and weaknesses within my leadership style, as well as seek feedback from the team and the council that I'm working with about what would work best within that organization. I'm very driven to, wanna continue my professional education, and that's that's very much on my bucket bucket list.

Wonderful. Thank you.

K. I'm next, but I'm still taking notes.

Yeah. And I'll I'll just while he's while he's on that, I'll just say I'm good. If we don't look at if we're not looking at you, we are old school.

So old school writing I mean, tapers behind the computer.

Yeah. I know. So we're not we're not being just I promise we're not being

I I I completely understand.

Yeah. I'm not coloring back here. Okay. So what do you consider essential in the relationship between a city manager and the city council, and how will you facilitate a productive relationship with city council?

I think essential to the relationship between city manager and council is trust. And second to that is balance. Understanding the role that we each play in a broader vision of the community and trusting that both sides of the coin are working towards that same effort. You are the vision setters of this community. You identify the policies that matter most.

You set the tone for the organization. It is a city manager's job to deliver that in in the best way possible with the resources that are available. As to how I've achieved effective communication, balance, and trust with my prior councils, it really starts with transparency. I wanna make sure that every member of council has the same information. If one of you comes to me and asks for information, I'm gonna make sure that everyone has it as a follow-up.

I I I think it's pretty standard now in this role to have weekly communications sent out to council. I try to be as comprehensive as possible. In my own evaluations, I seek to have regular meetings with council one on ones, where it makes sense, but also hosting regular office hours to welcome council members in if they have questions in advance of council meetings or any questions regarding activities that are occurring within the organization. In that regard, I just wanna be as open and available as possible. I understand that the role of the city manager, may not be a typical nine to five, and I I look to to make myself available when and if I'm needed.

Excellent. Thank you.

Okay. Please describe your commitment to our diversity and inclusion efforts and your experience working with a diverse community. Sure. So first

and foremost, I think this is a a great opportunity to acknowledge that we can't mince words about what's happening at the federal level. It is wholly irresponsible. As civic leaders, we have an obligation to represent the communities that we serve, and that means making sure that the organizations that we lead are reflective of those voices. In that regard, I've had experience in larger in settings, rural settings, and suburban settings leading DEI initiatives. In the city Of Chicago, I served the Andersonville neighborhood, which is one of the most socioeconomically and culturally diverse neighborhoods in the City Of Chicago.

We created business programming that was geared towards multiple languages. We served a very, very large LGBTQ plus community within that neighborhood. And then moving to Michigan, even in rural communities and suburban communities, those issues are prevalent. Making sure that your organization is reflective of the community itself is an active process. And you can't pass policies and let them sit on a shelf.

You have to be mindful of it in your day to day operations. In Celine, we have a very, robust and active DEI committee that helps us with those initiatives internally. And as as a community and and as an organization, we we look to make changes. We look to train our staff effectively on what those initiatives mean and why it's more than just a policy. It's it's an active choice.

The, the city is focused on building a positive employee culture among staff at all levels. What's your experience with intentional building and maintaining a positive culture for an organization? Well, this

is a topic I'm actually very, passionate about. Not necessarily something that I thought I'd get excited about inside of my career HR things, but I I have been. This to me is about setting people up for success. If you have people in your organization that are excited to be here, that want to do that work, it tells a completely different story. And most people that I've met in civil service didn't get into this work, because they couldn't find opportunities elsewhere.

In a lot of cases, they could easily find work in the private sector, and they're choosing to be civil servants because they have a passion for it. In terms of how to continue that and how to actively make that a part of the process, in in Celine, I've I created citizen or community surveys or internal surveys for our staff to get a better understanding of where issues were. I'll be honest. When I started with that community, morale was very low. There had been some significant turnover, a lot of questions that the community was facing.

And what we found is there was a real disconnect among staff to what was happening at the leadership level, both at the council level, but also in the city manager's office and just with everyday department heads. There was a very us versus them mentality. Moving through that, we developed new processes. We developed an employee development program that ensured that our, supervisors were having regular and meaningful conversations with every member of their team. And then from there, we started to build, more active elements of employee engagement, such as an employee recognition system that allowed for peer to peer recognition across all departments.

And that has taken off very successfully over the last few months for the organization as it gives, staff an opportunity not just to recognize each other for a job well done, but to also connect even further to the the community's core values because those are, intentionally placed inside of the system as a a means for recognition.

Just a quick follow-up to that. So you said that you created the internal survey, or did you use an external survey tool?

I worked with an HR consultant to help build that. Great.

Thank you.

Okay. The next is, how have you successfully addressed financial challenges in your previous roles, and can you provide an example of how you transparently communicated budget decisions to stakeholders?

Holders. Sure. So I touched on this a little bit in my opening statement. I am not unfamiliar with communities that are facing significant financial challenges or questions. I'm extremely comfortable.

I have a master's degree in public administration, but my concentration was government finance. As well, my background in startups and venture capital affords me the ability to, do a little bit more in terms of financial projections that maybe most other people in my role are comfortable with. In that regard, what I've been able to accomplish in both Duran and Saline is long term stability, and there's a few different ways to do it. There's no, silver bullet. It's always gonna depend on the community itself.

But at the end of the day, it's looking holistically at your standard operating procedures for your financial department. In Saline, we had success by introducing a new position, which is a purchasing manager position that looked holistically across all contracts with the city, all purchasing across all departments to identify efficiencies. That was incredibly successful. We were able to scale back some redundancies and identify opportunities for cost savings just through greater quantities of purchasing at one time. And then obviously, I I spoke a little bit early on about those particular challenges in Durand.

They had the three consecutive years of fund balance, deficiencies. In that regard, I'm very pleased to say we only had to actually long term terminate one position, that was union negotiated. It was really more of a retirement that we just didn't end up filling. The rest of it was accomplished through, a number of cost saving measures, identifying efficiencies, and then changes to our investment strategy. So in both Durand and Saline, I made changes to the city's investment strategy that made greater use of cash flow, and identifying wherever possible opportunities to have cash that was on hand for the city sitting in investment bearing accounts.

In Celine, this almost quadrupled the interest income that we were earning in one year. And then regarding transparency, which I believe is the second half of the question, I found, typically the largest expenditures inside of our organization are capital related, and that's also what the community is most interested in learning about. So I've used an online tool in Sling called ClearGov that we've had a lot of success with. That's a forward facing community tool. It allows people to see in real time how projects are progressing, what we have on the horizon, what is allocated to that, whether we have the funds where it's just a wish list item at that point, and then what's being spent on the project in the future.

Internally, I moved my team instantly to be as in a cloud, which has had a phenomenal impact in terms of being able to have department heads understand their budgets better. Just the the proto the protocols and, transparency that exists within that compared to just BSNA standard, really is is a world apart. I can't sell it enough. I'm not being paid.

I do have one follow-up on that, madam mayor, if I might. Because you have experience with communities that were in, distress, financial distress, when you're going through and finding efficiencies, a lot of the time that's going to require getting buy in from your departments and understanding that they're going to have to give things up. They're going to have to accept that there may be reductions. You know, what's your strategy for getting that organizational buy in for these difficult financial decisions?

Well, I think that starts with having team meetings with the decision makers, the people who are making those purchases or who do have those vendor relationships now so that they have a seat at the table and have a voice, in terms of, you know, what may be cut or what may be reduced or rolled back. The other thing I would say is giving them the opportunity to present those changes first, and determine if they do have the the impact. That's why I say, you know, b s BSNA Cloud has been a really useful tool for us, because our department heads can can see better how dollars are being spent, line item dollars are being spent in real time. They see encumbrances into the future. And that's something that that department has, maybe don't always understand is how, what's allocated is different than what's spent, and how those two things add up over time.

So being able to see that in real time and understand it a little bit better. And that's a role I feel very comfortable educating department heads on. I don't expect every department head to be, you know, a financial guru. That would be an unrealistic expectation to set. But to at least give them the tools to take ownership over their budget and see in real time, how how they're standing, that's something I can definitely help with.

Great. Thank you.

In your past roles or projecting to what you will do in Ferndale, how have you or will you try to manage community growth in a way that preserves community character and supports housing affordability? Can you provide a specific example of what you have done or would plan to do as a city manager?

Well, I will say Ferndale is not alone in wondering the answer to that question. There is no one size fits all solution, obviously. I think appropriate change needs to really be driven by the community itself, either through the master planning process or through your annual review of the master planning process. I can say some of the things that I've worked on in the past. Celine, for example, is a very fast growing community.

I believe we have, five, I yes. I believe five different either in progress or planning commission approved housing projects on the horizon. And, obviously, those come with a a certain degree of either community support support or consternation. We went through a fairly sizable update to our master plan within the last two years, that helped the city to understand where we really wanted to orient growth in that regard. And some community residents made it very clear where they did not want to see growth, which is equally important.

In particular, we identified downtown as an opportunity for greater density, particularly around mixed use density for a downtown district. I have a little bit of a soft spot for downtowns because that's kinda where I started my my career, and I saw the value of having housing so closely located to commercial downtown districts, particularly housing right on top of those businesses. So that's something the city of Salinas looking at now, making changes to their zoning ordinances and housing standards to allow for that. But in addition, city leadership there was, willing to embrace a change to our PUD ordinances, which allowed for us to start to approve smaller footprint lots and smaller footprint houses, that still met that single family goal, but without, you know, requiring the quarter acre lot and the 3,000 square foot home. Really, the goal that we've been trying to accomplish there is, greater diversity of housing stock.

I wanted to make sure that we're meeting people at every level of their life, so that people could grow through the community.

Thank you.

Can you please describe your experience with modernizing public buildings and addressing aging infrastructure? Second part of that, what challenges did you encounter, and how did you overcome them?

Again, Ferndale is not alone in that regard. Aging infrastructure is a major challenge, particularly inside Michigan communities. One thing I like to note to the community when we're talking about these issues is a lot of times when these buildings were built in the fifties, sixties, and seventies, the federal contribution to infrastructure was 10 times what it is now. That makes a huge difference. Now communities have these aging assets that they're being asked to fund and maintain and upgrade alone.

I have over a hundred and $20,000,000 in capital projects under my belt. In the city of Durand, I was exclusively responsible for project management. We did not have an in house engineering team. We hired engineering consultants, but I was the project manager for the city in charge of those. In the city of Saline, we are more fortunate to have an engineering department, but I took the lead on what is an $80,000,000 rehabilitation of our wastewater treatment plant.

And that has arisen out of a corrected or an administrative consent order with the state that necessitated certain, conditions be achieved within a specific time frame. So not only did it require extensive planning to get the project off the ground, but we had the constant communication and encumbrance of communicating expectations to the state, meeting the state's timelines, and and meeting the goals within the corrective action plan as part of that. We're about 50% of the way through that project now, and I think it's going quite well. We are well within the contingency for the project itself. We have a very good, construction firm working on it, and two different engineering consultants helping.

You're the chair. Can I have a follow-up question? You mentioned the, $80,000,000 waste management plant. Is that specific for Saline, or was that a regional, facility that other other communities utilized?

No. That is specific to the city of Saline. So you can imagine the community input that we had about that. It was a very sensitive process. I would say that the entire first year of my tenure with Celine was dedicated to community education and input on that project itself because originally, they were considering whether to buy new property and build a plant from the ground up or to rehabilitate their existing facility.

It was it was in that desperate of a state of disrepair.

Madam mayor, if I might also have a follow-up on this one. So specific to the wastewater, treatment plant triggered for me, you know, the mandate that we all have for our lead line replacements. Now while we can suspect that the federal EPA new guidance is likely to be rescinded relatively soon, the state mandate will still be in place, and that is still a very, very tight timeline to make major changes to our water infrastructure. You know, thinking through that, what kind of how will you go about tackling this kind of problem with the city like Ferndale where we have a lot to address in a short period of time?

Well, I had the opportunity today to tour the DPW facility and learn that you, at the very least, do have a dedicated project manager to the task, which I applaud. I I think it's absolutely necessary given the amount of lead service lines that will likely need to be replaced. Getting your hands around how to replace them most efficiently is going to require some concentrated planning. I I wouldn't propose to be the person who is an absolute expert on strategizing what that looks like, but I know how to find the experts. And the other thing that I would feel comfortable with is advocating to the greatest extent possible for outside funding.

I mean, we're talking about a commitment that's millions of dollars a year over the likely next ten years, and that has a very real impact on rate payers. You know, the state provides this mandate suggesting that it's the responsibilities of the municipalities to pay, but at the end of the day, it's the rate payers who fund the municipality. So it's still the rate payers who are paying for it and finding whatever means we can to offset that either through grants or state or direct, federal allocations to the extent the federal budget opens back up, would be very much on my radar.

How do you ensure open communication and transparency with residents, city council, and other stakeholders? And can you share an example of a time when you built or rebuilt trust within a community?

Sure. So for me, I think transparency and openness with the community is all about being available. I I had a opportunity to chat with some residents earlier today, and and one of the things I shared with them is, you know, I understand that sometimes coming to city hall or sitting in front of city council can be a daunting task. Not every resident wants to do that. They don't like that level of formality.

So the extent that I can make myself informally available, either through office hours or in the past, what I've had success with is hosting coffee hours at a local coffee shop and making myself available for those conversations. I'm willing to do that, and I I think there's great value in doing that. And then could you repeat the second part of your question?

Can you share an example of a time when you built or rebuilt trust within a community?

Sure. So going through the process of identifying cost saving measures for Celine, one of the opportunities that arose was the elimination of the city's in house dispatch, 911 dispatch service. And it really wasn't elimination. It was consolidating with county dispatch. The cities of Saline was one of only two cities in the county that wasn't already on the county dispatch.

And when we presented this originally, it was part of our presentation on cost savings. But really in hindsight, what it was was an opportunity for improved public safety. And I think when we presented it first as a cost savings measure, we got a kickback from the community that they they didn't want to lose that service just to save a few hundred thousand dollars. It was a sizable savings, but they they still were willing. When we reapproached the community and understood those concerns and worked with the county to understand how that transition would look and what it can mean for our officers and for our community, it became a different conversation.

And we were able to shift that messaging and identify and recognize the public safety value. And I'm very happy to say that that change has had a marked improvement for the city of Saline. Unfortunately, we've had three very significant incidents within the last couple of years, and having that immediate multi jurisdictional response was absolutely essential.

Madam Mayor, if I might do a follow-up on this one, you know, and I should have thought of this for for previous conversations as well, but, you know, opening having positive communications is is is the fun side of things. Right? But Ferndale, like most cities, also has residents who don't trust the city or have very serious and deep seated, criticisms of the city. You know, part of the job is also going to be handling the criticism, and and how do we how do you go about doing that? Not every resident is gonna be willing wanting to just sit down and have a fun chat.

Some of them are gonna be angry. They're gonna be stressed. They're they're they need something. How do you how are you gonna handle that?

Well, I I definitely understand that. First and foremost, I don't take it personally. I understand that people are coming from a place of passion and care a lot of times, and it's not a personal affront to me. I'm just the face for whatever the issue is or I'm the person that's willing to have the conversation. I think to the greatest extent possible, you have to let people have that space and sometimes give them the room to vent.

The other thing, it's actually a theme that has emerged a bit today is folks sometimes don't understand the role of local government and what we can and can't accomplish. A little bit of education goes a long way in that regard. So when people feel like they have space to be heard and your response is to provide more education, a lot of times I've found that there's success in building a relationship there. I'm not saying that every person I meet is gonna be my best friend, but I'm hoping that through that educational process, I can build trust. And even if we disagree, they understand my perspective, and they feel that I understand theirs.

Thank you.

And through the chair, I have one quick follow-up. Imagine you have sixty seconds to pitch a complex policy idea to a busy council member. How would you structure your message, and do you use certain frameworks or methods to structure your communication when delivering time sensitive information?

So, again, coming from a startup background, I'm very familiar with putting together pitch decks, and elevator pitches. So I would follow a very similar model that identifies the problem, the solution, and the ask.

Alright. K. I will, ask if members of council or the mayor have any additional questions for the candidate. Alright. Kelly, your turn.

Sorry. We will care. Oh, I'm sorry.

I

was busy writing. My my last question would be, if you were in this role, what would be the thing that would make you leave us?

Well, if I'm being perfectly honest, I'm I'm hoping not to have to leave. The reason that I am leaving my current position is because I don't wanna move around much more. I have young children. I'd like to, you know, give them a a stable life. That was something that I valued as a child growing up.

I I I don't wanna be that parent or that professional that, puts my career ahead of my family. So, that that wouldn't be my goal, but I guess what would make me leave is if I didn't feel heard, and and respected for the ideas I was bringing. I'm very comfortable with the fact that I don't have all the answers. I don't purport to suggest that my way of doing things is the absolute end all and be all. But I do hope that folks will listen and recognize the experience and thought that I put into whatever recommendations or ideas I bring before you.

Great. Thank

you. Okay. Okay.

Colleen, we don't have a lot of time for you to have questions to city council members, but, I'd ask you to prioritize one question that you may have for them this evening.

I guess the one question that I would have for city council is what are you most hopeful for? You know, there's been a lot of talk about challenges tonight and how we would handle the difficult things, but, you know, finish out a note of positivity. What are you hopeful for?

Alright. I will start. Well, one, we are hopeful for a successful Headley override, as well as hopeful to continue to bring, hopeful to ensure that the community's trust grows and they feel listened to, and that we can continue to build those relationships and, of course, to continue to bring community bring community involvement as far as our conversations and the decisions that we make as a council body is what I think, but I will let the others speak on their behalf.

For me, you know, I have hope. You know, one thing I'm most proud of is being a Ferndale resident. I love I love living here and I love serving the city. And one thing I am hopeful about is that Ferndale is Ferndale. And no matter what's happening in the world and what's happening federally, that this community will always protect itself and protect its own, and that we will not allow these headwinds to to take us off course.

I remain hopeful that Ferndale will, you know, circle the wagon, so to speak, and weather the storm together and support each other even when we disagree because we're in the storm. And I think Ferndale is the kind of community that's gonna come out of it even stronger.

I I can lend my voice. Repair. Mhmm. Repairing the trust as well as the buildings. And really empathy.

Understanding why we've had some pushback as well as how to meet these individuals where they are at so that we can, again, regain their trust, understand their perspective, and really get to the root of how we move the city forward.

So I can't argue with anything that my my colleagues have have shared. I agree with it all. I moved here, twenty some years ago because I was an openly gay man that wanted to live in a community that I knew I would be accepted, and that I felt safe in. And so I'm hopeful that we maintain that type of community, a progressive community, one that, that engages, respectfully with one another. And for tonight, I'm hopeful that we're gonna be able to hire, a city manager that can resolve all our problems.

Okay. No small no small ask. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm hopeful for that as well. I'm hopeful that we can, start listening to all the residents and bring all the voices to the table and make collaborative informed decisions together and and to continue to move the city forward in a positive way.

Thank you.

Thank you. Colleen, I'm gonna give you the final thirty seconds to one minute, to offer any final thoughts to city council before we conclude this interview.

Well, I just wanna thank council. I also wanna thank the staff and the community members that showed up today. I appreciate the dedication of their time, the insights, particularly from staff and community members that I receive are incredibly helpful. I don't envy your task. I I know it's difficult to sit there and and make these decisions about the future of your organization, but I respect that you put together a very good process, and I feel very informed, going into it if you should select me.

Thank you very much. We have about five minutes again that we can break till, between the candidate interviews.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Kelly.

Oh, okay. Alright. I'm not gonna so we are for about five to eight minutes.

Just like these numbers in the Yeah. Call numbers?

I mean, the let the who's asking what.

Oh, I know. Oh, yeah. I need

to know who's wrong.

We are back from recess, and it is 07:59.

Thank you. Mayor, city council, we have our third interview for the evening. Similar to the first two, I will ask the first question, and then city council members will ask a series of question after that. We will have time at the end for the candidate to ask, approximately one question to city council. I've already informed the candidate to prioritize his question, and then we'll close with the statement from the candidate.

Thank you for being a part of the process, James, today, and on Tuesday as a candidate that is an internal candidate, sometimes these processes are a little more awkward, and I appreciate your, commitment to the process throughout and for me treating you as another candidate. I appreciate your your commitment to that. I'm gonna start with the first question if you're ready.

Alright.

We've asked you to prepare a three to five minute presentation that introduces yourself and the reasons you believe you will be successful as Ferndale's next city manager. The floor is yours.

Alright. Thank you much. So first of all, thank you for having me here tonight. But, you know, looking at this position and why I wanna be Ferndale's next city manager, I love this city. I love this organization.

Over the last year working with, the staff, working with you guys, and during my opportunities to engage with residents in the community, I've developed a connection with the city. Working with this team, we've put a lot of effort into various initiatives around the community. I wanna help lead and push these initiatives forward. I wanna help team Ferndale succeed and grow because I care deeply about the team and the work we're doing here. The last few months, we've been through a lot.

You know, we've had leadership change. We had a Hedley millage failure, and we lost a a friend and coworker suddenly. I wanna be here to be a stabilizing force. I think there's a few reasons why I'll excel, as Ferndale's next city manager. First of all, of course, my experience.

Over the last, you know, over eleven years, my experience has given me opportunities to grow into this role. I've served many different types of communities throughout the state, all with different cultures and character. I've served a small rural community. I've served in a larger suburban neighboring community, and I've also served in another, inner ring urban suburb. I began my career in local government in the village of Decatur.

This is a small community of 2,000 people, kinda one of those where absolutely everybody knows everybody and a good chunk are, you know, related. So you gotta always, you know, watch what you say for sure. But in in that community, I learned the value of community. I learned the value of connecting to the various people in the community. I also because it was so small, I was able to gain hands on experience in a lot of different things.

I got to work often in the frontline with the staff, whether it was at the front counter, collecting water bills, or whether it was out helping the DPW with leaf pickup, or even, helping on a water main break, or sitting out waiting for, for the police department to do a search when we were looking for a a firearm in the local lake. I got to get a firsthand experience of their daily challenges. I moved on from there to the city of Royal Oak. In Royal Oak, working in the city manager's office, I was able to further develop technical competencies. I chaired a stormwater task force, where I got to learn firsthand about stormwater management.

I got to be involved and run the city's strategic planning process and our annual goal setting. I was involved in budget development and implementation. I was able to to develop leadership and mentorship, skills while I was running the internship program. I also, for fun, got to, be the staff liaison to the Royal Oak Commission for the Arts where we got to do a ton of fun things like our public piano project or summer concert series. And I also developed a regional approach to solutions.

For example, working with the city of Ferndale at the time, to expand Mogo throughout South Oakland County. After Royal Oak, I got the opportunity to serve as the city manager for Lincoln Park. Lincoln Park is a a similar sized organization with approximately a 50 employees. We had a general fund budget of $26,000,000 and an overall budget of about 57,000,000. I got to work closely with the six different unions, to collaborate and develop good collective bargaining agreements.

I also had to work with extremely aging infrastructure. We had done a lot of work while I was there, but prior to, it had been a very long time since we had done major water infrastructure projects. This was all while dealing with long standing fiscal issues. Lincoln Park was one of the last communities in the state of Michigan to have a an emergency manager who left in about 2016, which gave me the opportunity to work very diligently within the resources available to try and provide efficient services. Another reason I feel I'll excel in this position is my leadership style.

I have a supportive and collaborative leadership style. I believe in developing relationships. And I believe by in doing this by genuinely caring about the team I work with and the residents that we serve. It is these relationships that motivate me every day and give me the drive to excel in this role.

Alright. I'll be asking the first question, James. In your view, what makes a city like Ferndale successful, and how would you ensure Ferndale achieves and maintains that standard?

Ferndale is successful because of the people, the staff, the residents, the council, the boards, the commissions. There is a genuine care about this community among everybody. What makes it successful is its culture, from the various, business community to the staff and the the staff we bring in to develop our organizational culture. I believe in continuing this. I think it's important that we continue to develop on that base culture.

Our HR department has done a fantastic job bringing in the right people that fit within the culture, placing an emphasis on our values, integrity, inclusion, inspire, and innovation. So I in short, you know, it's cliche, but Ferndale is successful because of the people.

Alright. I have the next question. How would you describe your management and leadership style? Please identify both strengths and weaknesses related to your management and leadership approach.

So, simply put, relentless positivity, collaboration, and relationship building would define my leadership style. I build it off of my strengths, which is being able to relate to people, my empathy, my genuine genuine desire to learn, whether it's it's formal or informal learning from people, but also my ability to communicate difficult topics in a way that make it fairly easy to understand. You know, of course of course, we all have our blind spots. I am not somebody who is this this right here is difficult for me to talk about myself. I am not somebody who aspires to do great things for my own success.

I have zero, desire to really be the person in the spotlight. I wanna do it for the team. My weakness is, I don't have that feeling of wow. Right? I find I get my drive from serving the people.

I don't have the same type of external, motivators.

What do you consider essential in the relationship between a city manager and the city council, and how will you facilitate a productive relationship with city council?

Communication. 100%. When when you guys were were considering me as the interim role, I told you one of my goals was to maintain communication throughout this throughout this this process. I think that's been something I've really tried to maintain, making sure you guys are aware of things that are going on before, they hit social media or a news article as long as I can control it, as long as I know what's coming. Being able to work together, even if we disagree.

Right? I I hope that you'll give me enough time to make my case, even if we disagree. And I hope that you trust that even if we disagree and I've given you the time and you still wanna go a different way, I'm gonna support you a %.

Okay. Please describe your commitment to equity and inclusion efforts and your experience working with a diverse community.

I'm sorry. I didn't hear the last.

Please describe your commitment to equity and inclusion efforts and your experience working with a diverse community.

Okay. So we have to be focused on having a diverse workforce, diverse representation on our boards and commissions. We are better when we have more voices in the room. I think it's one of the most important things, and I love the fact that it's such a a pillar of Ferndale's values to the point we have the the employee led, racial equity action team, which is completely employee led and has no influence from the city manager, and they do a great job with it. Over my career, I have worked in a couple diverse communities.

Lincoln Park for one, had a heavy heavy heavily Hispanic, influenced population, and it was continuously growing. We tried to to really lean into it and bring bring some inclusion there. We had a good deal of, of new board members over the years I was there that came from the Hispanic community. We actually continued to grow festivals celebrating the culture. And then here, you know, we've got a we've got a diverse community here of all sorts of different backgrounds.

K.

As you know, we are focused on building a positive employee culture between staff at all levels. So what is your experience with intentional building and maintaining a positive culture for an organization?

Well, so the last year, of course. Dan and Justin and Emmanuel and HR have done an amazing job, and it's gotta start from the top. And so having an HR director that believes in it, having a city manager that believes in it, and everybody rowing in the same direction, if you will, is super important. It was something I was working. You know, it takes time to to build and change a culture.

It was something I was working on in Lincoln Park, and we were really starting to get successful. I I think that's here here's this is, again, the best culture I think I've experienced.

Oh, crap. That's me. How have you successfully addressed financial challenges in your previous roles? Can you provide an example of how you transparently communicated budget decisions to stakeholders?

Well, I mean, here we've been working on that quite a bit, going through the Headley Headley process. One of the things I did in Lincoln Park was first, I created the first strategic plan, working with council, working with staff. We created the first strategic plan that I think they'd had in at least ten to fifteen years to really help focus on priorities, on goals, so that we could prioritize our spending. From there, we also, I implemented the most robust capital improvement plan, that the city had experienced. Totally revamped, their process with an effort, you know, to to go after the, RRC best practice, because they hadn't been following following that for a long time.

And then we also took the time to start annually updating our financial policies. This was something that hadn't been done in the past. And this gave us the opportunity through our budget sessions to truly show the the community what we were doing, what we were spending things on, and why we were spending, money on them. We've also also had a couple times when I was in Decatur, in Royal Oak where we did very similar things.

And can you talk can you get, can you hit a little bit more on the transparently communicating these decisions? So these are decisions that you know, obviously, the council, the it's it's important for us to understand, but also the community. You know, government finance is complicated.

It is. It takes time. It takes a lot of public engagement. It takes kind of even getting granular to the one on ones. We did that.

I was doing that a bit in Decatur, more so than, Lincoln Park, and Royal Oak just because of the size. It was easier to do so. Showing transparency. Transparency is a a tough word. Right?

Because we we think we're transparent, but all it takes is, somebody not understanding for them to throw it back at us that we're not transparent. So it does it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of community effort surveys, to try and hone in on what's going on.

In your past roles or projecting to what you will do at Ferndale, how have you or will you try to manage community growth in a way that preserves community character and supports housing affordability. Can you provide a specific example of what you have done or would plan to do as a city manager?

So, I mean, this is this is talking about economic development, balancing growth. So, like, philosophically, it's really important to balance this growth. A city has got to continue to grow and develop, because stagnation is not an option. If we stagnate, we die. But also focusing on housing affordability because if you don't look at housing affordability, the people who are working in your community can't live there.

I'm talking about people in the service industry who have to be here every day. They can't afford to live here. And what does that cause? That causes additional issues. Traffic.

Parking becomes an issue. We become more reliant on autos when we're trying to get away from that, and all of it. So what we would need to do for the future, and I think we've really laid a lot of good groundwork, the workforce, housing ordinance. Opening up, being less exclusive in zoning, as unpopular as it is, it allows for the ability for more affordable housing. I think continuing to focus on this, continuing to focus on each individual project as we move forward, to ensure that we're looking at, housing affordability as as an option.

Because for one, Ferndale is a desirable place. It's a desirable place for developers to come. So we have a lot of leverage, and we need to use that leverage to be able to push these these, priorities.

Thank you.

Can you please describe your experience with modernizing public buildings and addressing aging infrastructure? What challenges did you encounter, and how did you overcome them?

So I'll kinda break that up into two. I'll first start about aging infrastructure. When I started in Lincoln Park, the last time we had done a major water, water main project in a major, not just, you know, a couple little ones here and there, was 1991. Because of this, because of that aging infrastructure, we were facing absolutely incredible water loss. We were reaching the 40% range, which for those who aren't familiar, general standards, you're trying to hit eight to 10% water loss.

So this was significant. And it was, you know, essentially, for every every $1 we were spending on water on from GLWA, we were throwing 40¢ out the window. So I took some time to work with our team, bring in our engineering staff, bring in our, department of public works, and really look at where our water main breaks are and start mapping out a plan to make a substantial improvement, an aggressive improvement. Eventually, our plan, called for the replacement of over over 30 miles of water main over five years. We started to implement that, and we are lucky enough, because you know, lucky.

Right? It's a relative term. But because of our financial status, we were able to leverage a ton of grant funding. We had a great timing due to a lot of money coming from the feds and the state, and we started implementing that project. At this point, I think they are now about halfway through, that water main project.

As far as aging buildings, I was lucky enough to have the timing to be in Royal Oak just as they were beginning to consider replacing City Hall and the police department. I was able to be part of the meetings, the strategy sessions, the design sessions that got to the point where, as you see now, a brand new city hall, a brand new police department, and a brand new central park in the city. Definitely learned a lot of lessons, a lot of things to do, a lot of things to focus on, and definitely some things not to. And through that, I gained a lot of, relationships with the people who are running the projects, and I that's something I'd be able to bring.

What did you learn not to focus on?

There were definitely things there were times that, the projects got oversold, for what they were. I think it's important to set expectations. I think it's certainly important to, set expectations about employee engagement. And if we're going to if we're gonna accept a lot of employee engagement, we have to be prepared to implement it.

Okay. This is, a two part question. So how do you ensure open communication and transparency with residents, city council, and other stakeholders? And, also, can you share an example of a time when you built or rebuilt trust within a community?

Okay. So ensuring open communication and transparency. I think a lot of it is as simple as it sound sounds doing it, holding yourself to the standard. We here in the city have a standard of replying to emails, replying to phone calls within two business days, making sure that I hold myself accountable to that as well, making myself available. If whenever you come through city hall, it's very rare that you're gonna see my doors closed.

I don't like having closed doors for one, but I wanna make sure that I'm available for residents, staff, council, anybody that comes in. Sometimes it's hard because you have to tell somebody something they don't wanna hear. And making sure you do that with empathy and understanding is absolutely key to be successful in that. And that builds into rebuilding trust and rebuilding relationships as well. Trying to think of a time when I rebuilt a relationship.

We had had kinda going back. We had had a kinda difficult relationship with the the public schools, when I was in Lincoln Park, and we oftentimes struggled with issues during weather weather situations. So what I ended up doing was creating kind of this this weather crisis team that included our DPW, our fire department, our police department, and the school superintendent. And together, when we knew there was a weather storm coming, some kind of issue, we would all get together and scenario plan what we were gonna do. And that really helped build that relationship and start moving us forward.

I have a follow-up on that, madam mayor, if I might. You know, communication and transparency is it's it's all fun and games when everybody's positive and happy about it. But Ferndale, like many communities, has passionate residents who don't always see eye to eye with the government, and or have concerns that need to be addressed. How does your policy of openness, transparency, accessibility, the community, how do you handle those more we'll call them negative interactions where someone is coming in very frustrated, very upset, a very serious deficit of trust? How do you approach that situation?

You have to approach those with understanding and empathy. There I honestly, there's no other way. If you if you get yourself, defensive, if you get yourself in a position of trying to defend what you're doing, it's not gonna work. Oftentimes, you need to let people, vent to you, and sometimes they just need somebody to listen to.

Through the chair. I know you've experienced this with me before. Imagine you have sixty seconds to pitch a complex policy idea to a busy council member. How would you structure your message, and do you use certain frameworks or methods to structure your communication when delivering time sensitive?

You gotta keep it simple. The shorter, the better. You guys are busy. You guys have a lot of things going on and a lot of priorities, not just here as as the council, but in your own private lives. So there's no point in wasting time.

It's important to give you the facts you need to know, the what happens if we do it, what happens if we don't do it, and then let you, make your decision.

K.

Thanks. Are

there any other questions from city council members?

I have one last question.

How will

your leadership differ from the previous city managers, and what specifically do you see as areas you can improve?

So I've been thinking a lot about this the last couple days, and I've had a couple other people ask me a very similar question. We have a lot of similarities in our leadership style for sure. There's no question there. But I think there are some reasons why Joe picked me to be his assistant. I think we worked very well together because of, my strengths complimented his.

My empathy, my ability to relate, my general interpersonal demeanor helped him be able to succeed as city manager as well. I think that's something I'll be able to bring to the table is I don't wanna say it, but almost a more human side to the government. So I think that's probably the biggest way we'll differ.

Great. Thanks.

Any other questions? Alright, James. We do have some time. If you have a prioritized question for the city council members to consider and respond to. The floor is yours.

Well, it kind of, piggy his back right off of, mayor Pro Tem's question. What is something that you guys are looking for that differed from Joe's approach?

Let me think about that. I'll let you all what? Let me think about that for a minute.

I'll jump in. I think for me, you know, what I'm looking for in a city manager is someone who, you know, I would say is almost even an overcommunicator, someone who absolutely is constantly keeping the council in the loop. We know what's going on. You know, a city manager has failed at their job if the council is ever surprised. I don't like surprises.

My colleagues don't like surprises. If I'm hearing about something from Facebook or a resident texting me, then there's been a problem. So, you know, for me, the place of improvement that I'd need to see in this next city manager over the previous one is that a more robust devotion to transparency and communication with the council as your boss, essentially.

It's fair.

And I would piggyback on that. Direct, forthright, transparent, authentic, all of those things would be phenomenal. You'd mentioned something about holding yourself to the standard. I agree. I don't see that in practice, and I would love to see that.

I I really feel like there are there are areas where we have a policy in place that we have just let it float for a long time and that we could step up and be that standard the way that we've intended to be. But it requires a certain it requires a certain finer touch to some of our staff members and really to looking at that interplay between our residents and our city staff, if that makes

sense. It does.

And I'm being intentionally vague.

I am looking for some someone who is available. You know, someone who's out there in the community who showing up and engaging with our residents, engaging with the council, being in the know, not being surprised.

For me, so I've been on council for twelve years. I've gone through two city managers, that I trained really, really well. I I am the type of person where certain things I just need basic information, but there's other things that I am very passionate about, and I want details. And if I want information, I want the information. I don't wanna be blown off.

I don't want, you know, the partial information. Oh, well, that's gonna take me too long. If I'm passionate about something, I'm gonna want as much information as I'm asking for, unless it's just not available. Fortunately, the past city managers have always been able to provide me with the information that I had, but I have been in positions where I have asked people for things and I haven't gotten what I've wanted. So that's to me, that's one of the most important things.

And just to kind of add to that, I think that being available is important and making sure we understand what's coming to the forefront. I will say that although we did in the previous, with the previous, city manager did get that agenda mapping, I think that not only providing the agenda mapping, but also providing logic and reasoning behind it and being open to, us reaching out to you at any, you know, given time, which I think you're used to me already. But, but just you us being able to reach out at any time when we need some understanding and some clarity, and you being able to explain that, in a way that we can understand, and then also making sure that everyone gets the same information. Now I'm sure there's more that I'll think about, but, maybe I'm tapped out a little bit right now. But yeah.

Thank you. James, we're coming close to the end here, but we do wanna give you the last, minute to to offer any final comments you'd like to, to the city council before we end.

Sure. Just, you know, again, thank you for indulging me this evening. And I just I want you guys to know that I whatever happens, I am committed to the city, and, I'm here.

Thank you, James.

Thanks very much, James. Before I, take the candidate out, this concludes your meeting for this evening. As I mentioned at the beginning, you will return here on Monday to, have a discussion about the candidates and, hopefully, identify the candidate that you would most prefer to make an offer to. I'll be in attendance at that meeting and assist with any facilitation you would like in that discussion. I encourage you to, you know, it's very hard to sit in an interview this way, both for the candidates and you, but we have the benefit of the recording.

And I do encourage you over the next several days to watch the recording. You took good notes with your heads down, but but do watch those recordings as you, take the the time to make your decision on on Monday evening. You will also receive from me, before, the end of the day tomorrow, Friday, any feedback that was received via the QR codes that were in the room tonight, as well as the, Zoom open house with the employees. So you'll receive that before the end of business tomorrow. Any questions for me, from the council before I escort the candidate out and allow you to close your meeting?

I do have a question regarding the upcoming Monday council meeting. So will can we expect that all candidates will be in the audience by today or no?

You can expect it's unlikely that the candidates will be at least two of the candidates will be in the audience. I can't say it on the third. But I I it is unlikely they will be in the audience.

Okay. Alright. And then,

you know, for our you know, we we're taking notes, old school, you know, and scoring. I try to score in real time as we move through. Is this something that's just really you ex you don't expect us to send you our scores or anything like that? That's more for our own internal.

I do not expect you to send me the scores. I do not, wish to see your scores. Those note papers are for your purposes. I do, suggest that you keep them in however you keep your paperwork for, as a city council member during city council meetings, but that is entirely just a tool for you to use at your preference.

K. Thank you.

Alright. Thank you very much.

Thank you. And and thank you, James, for interviewing, and thank you, James, for consulting. Alright. I'm getting that this is a an actual Oh, I meeting.

Alright.

Well, that includes our regular agenda, and now we will have call to council. And, so I'll leave it up to us. I

I got nothing.

You got nothing? Nothing?

Me either. I will actually have her and wait till our Monday council meeting. But with that being said, this meeting is adjourned at

08:33.

Eight thirty three.

Thank you.

Thank you

for

everyone