Ep 319 Coming Back from Burnout with Jane Daly

Welcome to Pencils and Lipstick. This is a podcast for indie authors. I'm Cat Caldwell, novelist, short story writer, and book coach. Here on Pencils and Lipstick, we're obsessed with all things story, and it is my goal to bring you the writing tips that you need to make your novel come to life. Hello, everyone.

Welcome back to Pencils and Lipstick. This is episode 319, and today is the last episode of this season. We will be back in August. So it is mid July, and we are gonna take a break. But I have one last interview for you, and in fact, I have a ton of interviews coming up for you in August as well.

I hope that you've been having a great time listening this season. We've had so many wonderful guests on the show. Everyone who is approaching their their indie authorship in a slightly unique way, which I think is amazing because all of us are trying to do something a little bit different. Right? So we will actually also be back with Craft and Connect in August as well.

So keep working on your marketing, keep, you know, trying to chip away at something. If anything, if you're going to work on anything, work on your newsletter, figure out what you're going to talk about in your newsletter, figure out who you are gonna have host your newsletter, and then start trying to find those fans. I know that that is the hardest. That is definitely the hardest thing to do, but it is possible. And in fact, starting with some collaborations with other authors is probably the best way to do it.

So finding other authors who who write what you write and seeing if you can, share each other's books and just just get on get on StoryOrigin. It's actually, especially if you're starting out, it's cheaper than BookFunnel, and you probably won't need all of the bells and whistles that BookFunnel has just yet. And in fact, StoryOrigin has quite a bit anyway. Also write a little lead magnet, write a short story or, maybe something from the point of view of your character and put it out there and have that sort of as that enticing little nugget for your newsletter. If you wanna find out more about newsletters, I will be, talking about newsletters in a summit, coming up, but you will find out about all those things if you sign up to my, to my email list, the writer's email list, which is always linked in the show notes.

But it will be the World Shift twenty twenty six Summit. It is hosted by Heather Davis, and I will be talking all about how to set up your author newsletter, why you need to set it up, and then going through some lead, magnet ideas and email, like, actually ideas on what to write in your email. So check that out. Follow me on Instagram, follow Heather Davis, but get on my writer's newsletter and you will get all the information about all the summits that I ever talk on. So if you're in Virginia, I will be speaking at the, Virginia Writers Association, Symposium on August 1.

That will also be really fun. I'll be doing my favorite thing that I talk about is how to, create a story around the character that haunts you. So I am very excited about that, talking in person. Usually, it's just me behind the mic here all by myself and possibly my children hearing me. But, yeah, in person will be something different.

So I want you guys to enjoy summer. We're actually slowing down a little bit. Two children are going to grandma's house. One kid is the other kid is working, and so I am really hoping to finish the historical romance. I've actually been busy writing a short story, like, besides the family stuff, for this contest that I signed up for and then a first chapter for another thing that I signed up for.

And now I'm going to really hunker down and get the historical romance. And I will be honest, there's like a resistance in me that because it it's just been such such a, like, busy last few months, that there's a little bit of doubt on if I can do it. So I know that I can. Just gotta give my my brain that space. I think some of the doubt comes from if I can remember what it is that I had decided to change, and I know I wrote it down somewhere.

It's somewhere over there, in all the notebooks that I have. But I know that I'm probably not alone in that sort of, like, resistance or that doubt or that, oof, I'm gonna look for anything else, you know, housework or whatever other than doing, like, sitting down and writing. So I get that. I'm there with you. My biggest piece of advice is to sit down and do it anyway.

Sit down and write it out. And even if it's something that ends up being tossed, the more that you write, the closer you're gonna get to what it is that you want to say. Okay. So if we sit in our head all day long, and in our doubt, we're really not going to get any closer. Like, waiting for the kind of that inspiration or that feeling to come is is you're going to be waiting a lot longer than if you sit down and try to write it out.

Now that is just my advice. Obviously, you guys can do anything that you want. But I am really, really hoping to do this a little bit of an experiment of starting tomorrow, writing and rewriting the entire thing in two weeks. So you guys will hold me to that. I will let you know in August if it happens.

Might as well have a personal challenge. So as I said in the beginning, we have a interview today. It's with Jane Daley. She writes Christian romance. We talk a lot about, like, the difference of the genre, what is expected, in her like, the the books that are coming out, she has them set in gold country, which is pretty fun.

She has they're not just, romances. She has quite a few different sort of, tweaked, like genre differences there, like billionaire and some sort of suspense romance, you know? So the romance category has so many different, like, branches off of it and she writes quite a few of them. So it is, it is a really interesting talk with her, but there's also that, that touch of if you want to be included in Christian fiction, what that means, what has to be included or what can't be included, all those different things. These are things that we really have to understand as authors when we're choosing our categories.

Right. And it's probably better to understand that as you're writing the story than to sort of get to the end of it and to have to either change everything or change the category that you expect it to be in. So stick around for that, interview. We are going straight into that. But even though we are taking a break, if you have enjoyed Pencils and Lipstick this past season, it would really help if you would write a review either on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or YouTube.

If you subscribe, you will be notified when we get back, which will be, August 17 will be the the week that we're back. So, really, it's not that too too long of a break. So if you subscribe on any of the channels, you know, YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts or any of the other, you know, hundreds of podcast apps out there, you will be notified, but reviews always help and share with your other writer friends. It's always fun, to to see how many more people are listening every week. You guys definitely help that to help get the word out.

As you know, I am not the greatest at getting the word out. I can do the work. It's getting the word out. And if you want to be on pencils and lipstick, think you need to be thinking ahead. So I'm already booked up into October, but you have to have three books published.

So you have to have some sort of experience in the indie author world or if you have a product that you think indie authors, should know about, pitch me. You can get on my writer's newsletter and respond. You can pitch me through a DM on TikTok or Instagram. My, my website, you can pitch me there. Sometimes it takes a little bit to get through the pitches.

Sometimes they go to spam, but I will find it. But three books, if you're an author, you have to have three books, and tell me what you would like to talk about. But if you have if you want it to line up with with a launch, just be thinking ahead. Right? Okay.

So without further ado, we're gonna get into our last interview of this season. We are talking with Jane Daley. She is actually she writes out of her motor home. They live they are living the motor home life, which is really interesting, just like how she gets her writing done. Her novels have won the cascade award, from the cascade Christian writers organization and was a semifinalist for a Carol award.

So she definitely knows what she is doing. So without further ado, let's go talk with Jane Daley. Okay. Hello, everyone. We are back.

This will be the end of June as you are listening to us, and I have Jane Daley with me. Hi, Jane. How are you doing?

I'm great. Thank you for having me.

You are calling us from your motor home, which you guys have decided to just live out in the wild, I feel like. How long have you been doing that?

We started about four years ago. Wow. We had always had this dream of someday we're going to someday we're gonna sell everything, buy motor home, travel The United States. And four years ago, all of the stars lined up, and everything worked. And we said, okay.

Let's pull the trigger, and we did.

But it's one thing to say it, and it's another thing to do it. Like, kudos to you for actually doing it. I feel like we all talk a lot. We talk a big talk sometimes.

We do. We do. And, yeah, it was always on the back burner. Someday we're gonna do this, and now we're doing it, and we have not looked back. We'll probably we we're looking at maybe another five years.

Wow. But, you know, that all depends. It all depends on, our health, the economy. Right. You know, all of these unknowns, but that's the plan.

There's another five years.

Wonderful. So so far, what's your, like, biggest surprise? Like, I don't know whether whether however to categorize that, like enchanting surprise or, like, oh, I thought I would like this or I loved it more as you travel The US.

I think I'm surprised that well, a couple of things. Number one, living with another person in a 400 square foot box is really difficult.

And I have college again.

Well, yeah, except that you're supposed to love this person.

You can't just, like, close the

door and leave, but you have to You you right. You can't just go down to the quad and have coffee. You're you're pretty much stuck. But but surprisingly, how we've made it work Yeah. Because we've always been really close, and we've been best friends.

So Yeah. It we make it work. But I do have a newsletter that I put out every month that's called Rigsby on the Road because our our, rig is named Eleanor Rigsby and the take off from the Beatles song. But I have a newsletter that I talk about our travels and what it's like, and it's it is a challenge, really. So the it's easy it's e it's a easy lifestyle, but it's also hard.

So Yeah. I guess there's so many little surprises along the way that are both, wow. This is a great serendipitous thing. And then there's also, oh, seriously, we have to deal with this. For instance, let me I'll give you a real quick story.

Yeah.

So we bought our motor home four years ago, and last summer, our refrigerator died. And so we had a guy come out. He serviced it. He did some voodoo magic, and it worked for, like, two days, and then it went out again. So we we discovered that, okay.

It's dead. We have to buy a new refrigerator. But you can't just go down to Lowe's or Home Depot or wherever, Walmart, and buy a refrigerator. It has to be an RV refrigerator.

Right.

So a new refrigerator or an RV is about $2,300. Oh my god. And then you have to have it installed, which is another $1,500 because they have to $1,500. Yes. They have to pull the old one out and then take your door off and take the doors off and then reinstall it.

So, got the new refrigerator. We're happy. We leave Colorado. We come here to Tennessee, and the refrigerator dies. No.

So our brand new refrigerator is now dead. And now we have to deal with warranty because, of course, the new one's under warranty, which took forever. So we lived without a refrigerator for probably a good three months living out of an ice chest. So No. We have the new refrigerator.

It's been installed about, I think, maybe a month, and, you know, we're we're loving life, and we're

we're okay now.

But, yeah, that is one of the big surprises of living in a motor home is you you don't just go down and buy the $900 refrigerator freezer. It is really expensive.

It makes sense, but, yeah, you wouldn't necessarily budget for that. Like Exactly. My gosh. Yeah. Oh my goodness.

So now you have some ideas of how our grandmothers lived when they got the ice delivered.

Yeah. Abs oh, yes. We went through so much ice.

That's so crazy. Like, can you imagine living like that, like, all the time? Like, I guess that's just your life, and how much bad meat people used to eat. I think about that sometimes. I'm like That is true.

Yes. People just sort of dealt with it. I think our delicate stomachs these days are too used to good food.

But I think we're we're definitely wimps compared to our grandparents.

Oh, for sure. My grandmother picked cotton at age five. Like, I am a big old wimp compared to her. Yeah. Oh my goodness.

So you've been in the doing this for four years. Where do you write? Do you write inside the motor home? I do. Yes.

Okay.

My husband and I have an agreement, and he will

Said signed contract.

What are you doing? And I will say, I'm writing, and he will say fine. He puts on his headphones. He loves to watch stuff on his iPad, or he'll go out and have coffee with somebody or have breakfast knowing that I just need time.

Time.

One thing that I have kind of I've revamped my schedule is I try to get up early. Mhmm. I have, time when I read my Bible, and then I start writing because he's he likes to sleep in. So he'll sleep in. It'll gives me a good hour to get some words down.

And then Yeah. Later in the day, I could do some more. But I definitely I sit at I sit at the table, and that's my writing space. And I just plug it you know, plug plug those words in.

Okay. So how do you deal with Internet? Do you just have it, like, a data setup? Or

No. We we use Internet at the campground. Every campground that that we've ever stayed in has Internet, and we just use theirs. And it works works fine. It's pretty powerful.

Okay. Alright. I guess too, if you're riding on the road, you won't be checking your Facebook. You'll be riding if you're actually right. That might be actually better.

Well, I took all of my social media off my phone because it was way too distracting. So, about three weeks ago, I decided I was gonna do a complete social media fast.

Okay.

I've broken it a little bit because my husband sends me these stupid cat videos on messengers.

It's funny. Yes. I know.

I click on that, and then I get stuck scrolling again. I'm like, this is such a time saver.

I know.

I need to be doing something else. So, yeah, I I am not tempted to check my Facebook while I'm on the road. No.

Yeah. It we do get sucked into this kind of stupid loop. Like, I find over and over again where I'm like, this is boring because I've been just scrolling. Like, there's nothing new, and I really think it zaps our creativity. Like, it just zaps that part of our brain, and you're just, like, kind of staring at the wall.

Like, oh my gosh. So I kinda make it a a point to not check it. First of all, like, what is there to check, really? You know? But don't check it until after writing, at least, because you just it won't get done.

The writing won't

get done. Exactly it. It's way too easy. As you know, as a writer and author, it's way too easy to get distracted because we know that sitting down at the computer is gonna require a certain amount of discipline. And our our self does not want discipline.

We want we want fun. We want easy. We want distraction.

We want cat videos.

Yes. We want funny cat videos. So it's hard to say, okay. I am going to sit down because I think for me, if I sit down to write, I think, oh my gosh. I have nothing to say.

Oh, no. I don't know where my thought is going. Mhmm. You know, you referenced you referenced a book in your podcast on everybody's, writing process is different. You referenced a book that I have read more than one time.

It was, called 2,000 to 10,000. Yes. And Right. I don't write 10,000 words a day. Well, most of the time, we'll talk about that later.

But that book helped me so much just before I sit down to say, okay. What am I going to write about today? What scenes am I going to write and have an idea of what I'm gonna write before I sit down? Because if I don't, just like every other writer, we're like, well, I don't I don't I'm gonna put off doing that because it's gonna be hard. I'm gonna sit down.

I have to discipline myself to writing to write, and I don't know what I'm gonna say.

Yep. And then you run the risk of writing something that you're gonna toss because it's just not going anywhere. That, honestly, that point of the book, that's worth all the money. Like, that one paragraph or page that she goes into. And it's so mind blowing and so simple.

Like Right. I couldn't believe I hadn't thought of it because I'm kind of crap at outlining. Like, sometimes I'll write ideas down, but sitting down right before you're writing to orientate and just focus and be like, this is what I wanna write about. So simple. So doable.

Right. Mind blowing. Mind blowing. Yes. When I teach I've taught a class at some writers conferences called How to Write Faster, and I referenced that book.

There's another book, and I can't remember the title of it offhand, and I'll probably think of it later, that also, talks about how to increase your writing speed. Mhmm. And the first thing is to just sit down and free write for even ten minutes and then count your get your word count and then multiply that by six to get how much you could write per hour. And then you can kinda figure out, well, if I if if I write an hour, I can get 1,500 words down. Yeah.

That'll be a great quota for today.

Right. Right.

Right. For two hours.

And then if you, like, have what you're gonna write about, you can literally write a chapter in a day, feel great about yourself in two hours or less, and go on about your day.

Like, because most to your cat videos.

And most writers have you know, a lot of them are still working or, you know, are doing other things, caretakers, whatever you are. So that's, I think, where the overwhelm comes in, where you're like, oh, I have a couple hours on Saturday morning to write, and then I'm gonna go to the coffee shop, and then I'm gonna write. But I don't know what I'm gonna write. And so I pick up my phone, and I scroll, and then I don't know what I write, and I feel guilty. And it's this vicious cycle.

And, like, that 2,000 to 10,000, just like, ugh. What do you say of relief?

It just feel like I I highly recommend that book. It's a easy read, and I read through it every few months when I feel like, okay. I'm kinda stuck. Mhmm. Now what do I do?

Reading books on craft is something that I would recommend to every author, whether you're a beginning or even you've multi published. Even

Yeah.

So one of my heroes and my favorite authors is James Scott Bell. He continually reads books on writing and rereads books on the craft. So I I think it's good for anybody to continue to study. And even if you just get pick up one little thing from a a craft book, it's worth it.

Yes. Yes. I think writing, and I say it so many times, is the only craft where people, for some reason, think that they don't need any instruction on. And it's like every great artist, no matter what art it is, they have had a coach. They have had a mentor.

They have had, like, singing lessons. They have everyone has had some sort of lesson. Even if they come up self taught, they eventually get coaching or lessons or mentorship. Right? And that's how you grow in it.

Like, you cannot just grow in your little tiny, you know, head.

Well and and it's practice just like playing the piano or learning a new language.

Right.

You if you don't practice, you will not get better. And how do you get better at writing? Well, you write.

You write. You gotta finish that writing. Yes. So when did you start writing? Did you start before you decided to sell everything and go traveling?

I did. Yeah. I started right I had always said, I'm gonna write a book someday, you know, just like everybody else. I'm gonna write a book. I'm gonna write a book.

And I think it was the end of two thousand and nine, and I had to take some time off work because of some health issues.

Mhmm.

And I was, you know, kinda bored, and I was just praying. And I felt like the Lord said, now. Like, now you need to write that story that's been rumbling around in your head for the last few months. And so I sat down and started to write. Life interrupted.

We our son got sick. He ended up, passing away in 2010. My dad passed away in 2010. And so that all of that was kinda put on the shelf. Yeah.

Then I took it back up maybe a year or two later, finished a novel, and then I was chatting with, an agent, and we were talking about just life in general. And he he said, have you ever he was an acquisitions editor, not an agent. He he said, have you ever thought about writing a book about your son's death? And I said, yeah. I thought about it, but I don't I just I don't know.

And he goes, well, if you did write that book, I might be interested in taking a look at it. So in my mind, I went, bling. Maybe I don't wanna be a novelist. Maybe I wanna be a nonfiction writer.

Nonfiction writer.

So I wrote this book. It went through Harvest House. They it went all the way up to the act to the editorial committee, I think, and they decided that they didn't like it because it would have too narrow of a focus. So I found another publisher.

What? That seems to be

They said books on grief don't sell well, and and I get that. They they really don't.

Okay. Really?

Yeah. Well, I'm not sure somebody like Gerald Sitzer who who wrote, A Grace Disguised. I mean, his book has sold millions of copies, and it's about his losing his wife and his mother-in-law and two of his kids.

Oh my gosh. That's rough.

But, anyway, I found another publisher.

So it was a Christian audience, or was it for a general audience? Okay.

It was for Christian.

Interesting.

So I got that one published in 2015.

Oh, so you did get it? Okay. Oh, five years later. Okay.

And while I was, you know, mulling over, hey. Maybe I wanna be a, nonfiction writer instead of a novelist, I had an idea that I thought, you know, I'm we're caring for my mom. We cared for my dad before he died. Now we're caring for my mom. I wonder if there's other people out there who are struggling with the same thing.

So I started asking a bunch of friends my age. They were all like, oh my goodness. Yes. We need a book on how to do this because we're just we can't navigate this caregiving thing. Yeah.

So I approached Focus on the Family, and I said, I have this idea. What do you think?

And I said approached them?

Like I did. I did. Like, why not? So they ended up publishing my book, The Caregiving Season. So it was published, I think, in 2016.

Oh, I didn't know that they published books.

Well, they published through Tyndale, but it is focused on the family, Tyndale Publishing.

Okay.

So, yeah, they published it. Nice. I felt like I was on a roll, but then I was like, you know what? I really just wanna write fiction. I just wanna write books.

So I started writing another novel, and I know that you listen to Thomas Umstead Mhmm. Podcast. Yeah. And one of his 10 commandments is thou shalt not publish thy first book first. So that novel that I wrote after my son died was still kind of moldering.

So I wrote another book, and I ended up, oh, I found an agent, and I ended up getting that one traditionally published. So since then, I've been traditionally public all of my books are traditionally published. Where are

you published through? The same or different houses

that are I'm published with Elk Lake Publishing, and then I publish with Winged Publications. I have a series of three three two three book series that are strictly romance. Okay. So two different publishers.

Okay. Nice. Did you go through agents, or did you are these publishers that you contacted directly?

The Winged Publications, I think I contacted myself. I saw them come up through ACFW, and I thought, oh, I'm gonna check them out. My agent helped me get the first couple of books published with Elk Lake, and then she decided she said, you you really don't need me. How about if we just part ways? So so we did.

Okay.

You don't have to pay her, I guess.

Right. Yeah. So, yeah, that's

So you write two different genres, one but under the same pen name?

I I use my own name. I write gosh. I I have done this weird, like, I'm gonna change lanes. I wanna try to write romance. So I did.

I wrote six romances. I'm gonna try writing romantic suspense. So I wrote three. And then I now I'm like, I'm going back to women's fiction. I just want a full length women's fiction, and that's what I'm working on now.

But I have to tell you this. I I think this is funny. So I'm I scroll was scrolling through Thomas Umstead's social media thing, which is his circle, and I saw your podcast come up, lipstick and pencils. So I'm like, oh, I don't know. That title is so cool because one of my romantic suspense is called lipstick and gunpowder.

And I'm like, anybody who has a podcast called Lipstick and Pencils, I need to I need to know her.

Sorry. I see this, the cover for that is probably my favorite cover of yours, the lipstick and gunpowder. That's very cool. But is that a a romantic suspense?

It's romantic suspense, and there's three books in the series. The third one will be coming out around the time that this podcast airs. It's called Diamonds and Dynamite. Okay. It's part of the Gold Country series, so it takes place in the Gold Country of Northern California.

But modern times? Or

Yes. Modern times.

Oh, interesting. Interesting. We will definitely have the the links to that in the show notes. But you basically, like, you got your second so you got your nonfictions published 2015, 2016, and then since then, you've been doing fiction?

Yes.

So how many books do you have out?

With this one that's coming out, 17.

Okay. So let's talk. Okay. So you okay. How?

Like, let's just start there. How do you get that many? Like, we talked a little bit about our favorite book, 2,000 to 10,000, but how do you actually get 17 books written and out in I'm trying to calculate eight years? Like, not even eight years.

Yes. Something like that. Last year and the year before was a little crazy. I I kind of I got ahead of myself, I think. So last summer, I just thought, you know, I there's this new thing.

It's a billionaire romance. You know? Millionaire romances are now dead because

nobody wants to be a billionaire.

Everyone's a millionaire. Let's do, let's do a billionaire romance series. So I saw there's so many billionaires in some of this. Billionaire romance series. So I know there's

so many billionaires in

the book.

It's so funny. It's like the Dukes, you know, of the Regency. It's like, there's, like, seven. There's not this many Dukes. Right.

They're fun. I love it.

They're fun. I like romance. I'm a romantic at heart. Mhmm. But and I do read a lot of romances.

But I had already had three books published with range publications. They're all, they're just romances, but they're from a Christian worldview. So they're all Okay. Very inspirational. Closed door.

I don't even know if they kiss. I can't remember. Anyway, so I contacted Cynthia Hickey at Winged Publications and said, hey. I have this idea. It's a three book series.

Here's here's the three titles. What do you think? And she said, here's a contract. So she immediately sent me a contract. And the way that Cynthia likes to do it is she likes to do rapid release.

So, like, every three months, have one of your books come out. So now I'm under the gun having to get three books written within a very short period of time Like, which is and

then edited. And then

Written and edited and submitted. So I worked my little butt off My butt. Writing those three books. Those all came out last year. But at the same time, I was still under contract with Elk Lake to do the three book series, the Gold Country series, and I had written the first two.

So there's five five books that came out in 2025. Oh my god. The third book in the Gold Country series that's coming out this year, I was way past contract date. So because I was burned out. Yeah.

And I believe you know, there are people who can write that many books and maintain their sanity. I'm not one of them because the end of last year, I hit a wall, and I could not write anything.

Like, creativity wise, you couldn't

Like, creativity was gone. I I couldn't think of a plot. And here I am. I'm, you know, 20,000 words into this book, this Diamonds and Dynamite, the third one in the series, the Gold Country series. And I'm like, I don't know where this is going.

I hate it. I hate life. I never should have

done it. It's a real burnout. I hate life. I hate

use it. I hate my books. I hate my writing. I never wanna do

this again. Good. I don't know how to

do that. Yes. I I hope that your listeners are like, yes. I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm, you know, regretting every single life decision that I've ever made.

So I just said I I contacted my publisher, Elk Lake, and I said, I am sorry, but I I just need some time. And they said, no problem. Whenever you get around to it is fine. So Nice. I took probably a good three or four months off of writing, just really dabbled a little wrote a few

of the

blog post. It no. It was so refreshing. Yeah. Yeah.

I did my newsletter. I did a little a couple of things on Substack. I read a ton and just was happy to not have that pressure.

Mhmm.

I did finally finish the book. It is at the publisher. We're just waiting for the final edit before it's released, and I'm on to something else. And I what I found is that having that constant pressure of a contract Mhmm. Really stressed me out.

And so it's not that I it's not that I don't recommend people having a contract with a publisher. It's just that just be careful of knowing your own limitations. And now I know my limitation. I can't do five books in a year.

Yeah. It's hard to do it, though, before you do, but but you get so excited. It's almost like if you had waited a few months to send the idea. Right? But but you get excited, and you think, like, well, this might take a while,

and then it didn't.

And then you're kind

of scared. Yeah. I mean, I had written out the characters of all the books in the billionaire series. The the characters, the plot, the subplot, the, you know, the all of that in a notebook. And, yeah, I was really excited about and I I'm I'm excited about the books except for the third one.

I feel like the by the third one, I was like, I'm done. I don't like this anymore. And same thing with this Gold Country series. Okay. I finished it.

It I it's not my best work, but I'm on to something else now. So

Yeah. Yeah.

Now I'm back to writing Strictly Women's fiction, which I think standalones or series? Five yes. Still I'm this might be a series. I haven't decided yet. I'm still muddling through.

I'm about 70,000 words into it, and I had this brilliant idea of making it into a series, but that's one of those things that I'm not sure. And, you know, you know the creative mind is like having 50,000,000

I know. That's the thing.

A computer.

It's honestly it's a long It could it could be a series or, like, a multiverse. Yeah. But, I mean, it's almost like ideas are almost as bad as scrolling because they will come up when you're, like, in the hard part of a book, and you'll be like, oh, squirrel. It goes straight to it. And sometimes it's good, and it's refreshing because you need a break.

But sometimes it's just distracting. So what got you actually to sit back down and write? Like, the refill, was it just a combination of rest and reading and all that, do you think? Or, like, what helps you actually get the plot together?

I use 3 x 5 cards to do plot, plan plot planning.

Mhmm.

So I just sat down and wrote a whole bunch of ideas on 3 x 5 cards about what could happen next, what would be the next situation that my main characters would get into that would be difficult, what would keep them from getting their goal, and just just started basically outlining. And then Mhmm. Because I have written so much and because I feel like I am a professional Mhmm. Then I just sat down and said, I need to get this done. I'm under contract.

I have an obligation to fulfill, and I'm going to get this done. And that's that was my motivation.

Yeah. I but sometimes writing is that. Whether you're working for someone else or yourself, everything becomes a job at some point. Right? Like, even if we love it, there are points at which you have to say no.

Sit down and write. I don't know about you, but whenever I like, there is a moment when I get into flow that my brain goes, oh, pretzels would be great right now. And there are times that I have to be like, no. Like, I'll literally stand up audit like, without thinking and be like, what are you doing? Sit down.

And that's just like the flesh human not wanting to do the hard thing. Right? Like, this is I don't wanna do the hard thing. I need a snack. I need to do this.

And you really have to resist that because in the end, it is a job. There is a part to it where it's like I'm you know, it's like when people say I only write when I'm inspired. It's like that doesn't no. That's not how this works. Doesn't work.

No. Well and the other thing one of the things that also helps me if I'm feeling unmotivated is Mhmm. I will set my timer on my phone for twenty minutes and say, okay. You know what? I only have to write for twenty minutes.

Right. And then I can stop and go get a snack, get my pretzels or whatever, and then I can come back. And I find that if I do that, even when the timer goes off, I'm like, but but I'm not done. So I keep writing because I gotta finish this scene. And it's like, okay.

I did that. I can do that again. Let's do that again because that felt really good.

Right. Isn't that funny? Like, we're so proud of ourselves when we finish writing. But there's some there's just this resistance as much as and I hope this helps people listening. Like, even if you're beginning, you're not it it's still, like, whether for better or for worse, it still persists.

Like, there's still a moment, and I've talked to so many writers where, like, at some point, you still have to sit down and you still have to force yourself to to write. Some days are better than others. Right? Like, some

Well and and the thing I think for everybody, even especially beginning writers, is celebrate your accomplishments. So maybe you can only write for ten minutes at a stretch. Maybe it's twenty minutes is too much. Write for ten minutes and then pat yourself on the back and say, I did that. I wrote for ten whole minutes without stopping.

And then do it again. And then the next day, increase it. Do fifteen minutes. We we need to make sure that we celebrate our ourselves because this is a solitary riding journey. Nobody's gonna be standing over there going, yay.

You did it. I'm gonna give you a raise. It's not like a job. You're you have to be able to have enough, self awareness that you can say, good job. Good job, Jane.

You wrote for twenty minutes. You hated it, but you wrote twenty minutes. Probably get a better point.

Like, if you wanna start training for a marathon, that's what they do. Right? You run for one minute. You walk for two. You want you know, like, whatever it is.

I mean, in honestly, physically too, if you're just sitting down to start writing, your body is going to resist that. That is a position that you're not used to sitting, writing. You really, we shouldn't think that we should sit for five hours. Like, that's actually not really good for our brains or or our bodies. But when you were writing these five books, were you working on one at a time, or were you working on all of them at the same time?

One at a time.

Okay. Okay. Some people I I can't do several. Some no. No.

Would you get mixed up, or do you just, like, not like that?

I just can't. I I don't know. I just have never never done that.

I Yeah.

I am very goal oriented. So the goal is finish this book, then you can move on to the next one because that one will be fun until it's not. You know what I'm talking about? Yes. Exactly.

About you know, you get a third of the way in and you think, I hate this. I never wanna do this again. So but in your mind, you're like, oh, but that next project, that new shiny thing that I haven't started on, that's gonna be good, but I have to finish this one first. Yeah. Which I think for a new writer is probably the best advice is finish the thing first.

What I found when I was first starting out is writing I wrote articles and submitted them. Some got accepted and some didn't. But that gave me a really good impetus to say, okay. Somebody actually wants to pay me $35 for this

Yeah.

300 word article. Woo hoo. Yeah. I I just got paid. I'm a professional author now.

And it gives you the it gives you the encouragement that you need along the way.

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That that that's a great idea. There's there's actually quite a few online places always looking for people to submit things.

You know, some of them pay, some of them don't, but even getting accepted is quite like, oh, look at that. They like my writing.

Yeah. They like my writing. They liked it enough to put it into print. And that's I that is important.

Yes. I think that's very important to say, I am a writer. Look where I'm published. Right here. There's something to that.

Just our ego and we all have it. Like, we we all want to be validated on what we're doing. And writing is difficult. Like, it's it it's difficult to get that validation. There's a long time in between validation, so getting those little Right.

Women's is is important.

And as a Christian author, you're not gonna get wealthy doing this because our our readership is a lot smaller than the general public. Mhmm. If I wanted to write steamy romances, I could probably make a lot more money, But I don't want to do that. My this is my lane, and this is where God's called me, and this is where I'm gonna stay.

Right. Right. Yeah. The

Could you also write closed door? You write closed door romance.

Yeah. I find And

I I like that.

I, way in the beginning because most of the, like, romances we grew up on were not closed door. You know? So it didn't even occur to me. I I don't know that there was Christian fiction growing up.

There there for me, there was not. It was Harlequin or nothing.

Yeah. It was whatever grandma had on the shelf. I'm going frequently, you know, like, at the library. It never occurred to me, but things have gotten so raunchy that it just is it doesn't interest me at all. I find it quite boring.

I mean, it just like, that's not the point to me. The story is, like, the tension of the two people. How are they gonna figure it out to, like Mhmm. Live in a motor home together and not kill each other? Right.

You know, like, are they gonna decide to choose each other? You know? So yeah. So the the market I do think more and more people are at least being more vocal about kind of leaving because it went from just spice, steamy to, like, smut, and that that's a whole different thing. And people even my kids, I have three teenagers, they all look for things that don't have it.

Like, they're oversaturated, which is a curious change. And I think our society in America shoots up and then shoots back down. You know? We just go extreme on everything. So we'll see.

We might actually have more market. You never know.

Well, that would be great.

Yeah. It would be it would be great. So when you said that you were on a social media fest, does that mean that you have built a platform for your writing off of social media, or are you on social media with that?

I have a newsletter that I send out monthly, and at the it's mostly about our travels, but at the bottom, I usually have writing updates. I will talk about either a book that I highly recommend that I have absolutely loved or one of my recent releases is on sale or something like that. The so I have my newsletter, and then I have been doing, Pinterest. So I'm kinda seeing how that works. Yeah.

But what I tried to do is run a sale on one of my Kindle books for, say, a dollar 99, and I will advertise it on, the fussy librarian or the bookshelf or faithful reads or bookbub. Those are the four that I have used before. So, like, in lowering the price on one the first one of a series.

Mhmm.

And then I will shoot that out to social media. I I I do kind of spam social media when I do run a sale. And I have noticed and I don't know if the sales are coming from social media or if they're actually coming from one of those one of those book things. But that has really helped. That helped spike sales for that period of time, and then, hopefully, they'll they'll like it enough that they will wanna read the next two in the series.

Yeah. So as a traditionally published author, you still are kind of in charge of those sales and those promotions, I

guess. Yes. I Okay. I contact the publisher, and they say, hey. I'd like to run a sale on update.

Can you lower the price to Okay. A dollar 99 for this period of time? Okay. And they're both very willing to do that because, you know, they want they wanna see you make sales as well. They

wanna see that spike as well. Yeah. Yeah. Do you still go ahead.

No. I was gonna say the what I have found is the best place to sell books is in person. So Oh. Most writers are introverts. So, yes, we we are we have a difficult time talking to people most of the time.

What? But I I have some, postcard size cards that I had made that have just a sampling of four of my books along with a QR code that takes you to Amazon. And I will say if I'm at the doctor, I will say, hey. Do you know of anybody who likes to read? Oh, yeah.

I love to read. What do you like to read? Well, I like to read blah blah blah. Well, here. Let me give you my card and see if any of these look interesting to you.

And and that's it. Then you're done. So I have done that at the grocery store. I've done it at the hair place. I do it sometimes when people come into the campground.

If they're wearing a cross necklace, I'll say, hey. Do you like to read? Yeah. I'd love to read. Do you let me let me get you my card, and I'll hand them a card.

I think some people are breaking out in sweats as they listen to you so much.

Well, I'm I am going to tell you that I do break out in sweats, but you do have to do it. It's a way to get your name out there because you you know how solitary we are. We sit in our little hovel, and we pound out words. And then when we bear you know, peek our head out like, Phil on the on the Groundhog Day, oh, there's people. There's

people out here. Yes. And you know what's so funny? Interact. We make it such a big deal, but most people are like, oh, cool.

Like, not most like, I've never encountered someone who's like, don't care. You know? Like, like, super rude about it. Now whether they take the card and toss it, I don't know. But most like, to my face, they're not rude.

So so it's weird how we build it up as such a big deal in our head. But the more you do something, the less scary it is, sort of.

Yeah. No. I would agree with you. I think that even if you only have one book Mhmm. Put that on a card and hand it to people.

Make sure that either QR code or link or something Yeah. Link to your website, whatever it is, so that people can find you. Otherwise, you're gonna languish out there with the 250,000, novels that are published every single day on Amazon.

I know. Is that not insane? That's

I don't know of that number, but it is a ridiculously large number.

Ridiculously large number. I don't know. It's so overwhelming to even think of. So, so you are on your own for marketing, or do they also do marketing with you?

I'm pretty much on my own. The

Okay. Like, after the book launch, or are you also on your own for the book launch?

On my own for the book launch. Really? Okay. Elk Lake has a an author page, and they will put out your new release when it comes out. And then they also do, another social media post like books published this month, and they'll have my my book on there if it's published that month or books published this quarter.

Mhmm. Winged publications does not have that. They do have a newsletter, so they will send out a newsletter, but it's pretty much to all their authors. But they offer something unique in that I'm part of a group that we read each other's books Okay. And then we leave a review.

So Okay. It's you get your book reviewed. I review somebody else's book just to kind of help.

Yeah. But Reviews are a pain.

Ugh. It's so hard to get people to leave a review. Oh, I loved your book. Did you leave a review? No.

Just a star. Just choose the stars. Just choose the stars. Go this way. Go that way.

On this scale of the stars. I know. It's really hard, and a lot of people are really anti Amazon now. And I'm I'm begging my newsletter this week of, like, really it it really is incredibly helpful to leave some reviews. Like, you we really can't get past.

That's just if you only have 10 reviews, you just can't

Right.

Lose anywhere.

It it it's impossible. Amazon used to be 50 reviews, and it would start to help promote your book. Now it's a 100.

Right. And to be. There's too many books published every day.

Well, right. I'm thinking in my next newsletter, I'm gonna put out, here is here are a couple sample templates that you can use for your review. I liked this book because Yeah.

I've heard people do that, actually, and it you know, it's not telling them what to do. But, yeah, it helps because some people and I and I always tell people, it's great if you wanna leave words. I love reading them, like, what you liked, what you, you know, thought was okay or whatever. But you only have to you really you can also just click four, five, three stars. Please don't click one or two.

Just my just my, like, my opinion.

Do you read your reviews?

I do. I like reading them.

I do too. But some people don't, and some people recommend

that you read them. I would recommend for most people not to. It can really bring your day down. But some people are so funny. Like, I have a one star review because she didn't like a sentence.

And it was and she writes she was like, her heels clicking against the marble. Like, what is that about? She's like, wow. That's harsh. Like so I was just like me.

Yeah. So I brought it up on my TikTok. And I was like, okay. Like, clearly, you have the freedom to do whatever you want, but wow.

But, you know, Thomas Umstead says that even one stars review one star reviews help. He said they're they're more helpful than a three star review.

Yeah.

So there you go. You just raised your

I think a lot of people will see that and be like, that's kinda lame. I do think I don't talk about this with other readers a lot, but I think Goodreads people think that they know a lot because they read, and they don't actually know a lot. Because a lot I will read other people's reviews too. I mean, every book, you might love the book, and then you'll go and be like, three and a half stars? Are you serious?

And it's because they didn't vibe with it. And you think, that's not what a review is. A review is like, is this well written? Is it a well thought out story? Is it you know, depending on the genre, did I vibe with it or not?

Just just set it aside. I mean, that's just my opinion, and it's always been like, okay. If I didn't, like, love it, then it's more of a me issue if it unless it's terribly written. And even then, I I I don't give out less than three ever. If I didn't like it, I just won't ever say anything about it.

I'm the same.

But they really think they're, like, New York Times editorial critiques. You know? It's like it's just like and they'll spew out words sometimes. Like, one lady, one of the I mean, she looked like a young woman. A book that I had read, she's like, you know, it was more showing than telling or telling the showing, and I was like, this is Tana French.

Like, no. You know? Like, no. Stop talking. Like, don't say so, anyway, I think you have to find the humor in it.

I think if you can't confront your reviews, you have to, at some point, understand that your book is not for everyone, and that's okay.

And I think goodness for that. Yeah.

No kidding. Do not send your book out to people who are on social media just talking about books a lot. Like, make sure that they know what kind of books you write. And, I mean, yeah, if you go through life without ever reading your reviews, that's fine. But the thing is, you have to know how many are there, so then you see the stars.

You know? So it's not like you can avoid it constantly. You have to run promotions. You have to get your backlist moving. You have to be seen throughout all the noise.

So, you know, I mean, you might as well just face it head on.

No. I I agree. I I had somebody leave a review for one of my books that said she used too many words that I did not know the meaning to. Like, well, okay.

But, again, that says

more about her than you. Yes. But what I did, because I thought it was kinda funny, because I was accused of the same thing at work. They were when I was working at a bank, they're like,

we still a vocabulary?

Yeah. Like, your vocabulary so, anyway, in the next book that I wrote, which is called where is my sister, I made this gal, have almost an eidetic memory, which means that she could remember specific dates, but it wasn't date related. It was all word related. She had memorized the entire 365 word of the day calendar. And so she continually would use these words, but I had her in her mind, use the word and then give the definition.

I was like, poke you in the eye, lady who doesn't have a good vocabulary. Here.

I'll help you

out. Yes. We are going to make sure that you know the what this word means.

But isn't that funny? These days, people will just freely admit that, oh, I don't like this because she uses big words. It's like, yeah. I mean, twenty years ago, nobody would have admitted that. You know?

So I don't know. It's very strange.

Grab a dictionary.

It's literally Literally on your Kindle. It Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Okay. I will try to dumb it down. No. I'm not gonna do that.

No. I mean, it's just it's funny. I mean, that's where I think instead of having something fearful about reviews, if you just find the humor in it and just realize, you know, okay. Well, that person must have had a bad day. Like, it's okay.

Yeah.

And, you know, the majority of your reviews are gonna be four, three, you know, some fives. But that's true if you do publish the very first book you ever write without any sort of craft book reading. It might be less than that, but that would be something to learn from. So

It's all a learning experience. I think you have to take those reviews with a grain of salt and know that, like you said, maybe they were having a bad day. Who knows? And and sometimes you can learn from it. Sometimes you can read those and go, oh, okay.

Yes. I need to be careful of that Yep. Particular issue.

But definitely don't, like, make that the main point. I remember years ago, people are like, read your reviews to know what you did wrong. I'm like, no. The book should not be out. Something's wrong.

I was just like, that seems like terrible advice. Yeah. No. No. Please get help and get it edited and find out what's wrong with it beforehand.

First. First.

So can you tell us again what is the name of the book coming out now as this podcast goes out?

The name of the book is called Diamonds and Dynamite. It is a romantic suspense that takes place in the Gold Country of Northern California, specifically in Ione, and it's very much ranch country. And so you have the former FBI agent who's, taking on a role as, sheriff interim sheriff or the Jackson County sheriff's department. But she has her mother with her who is suffering from dementia. Oh.

So there's a there's a diamond heist. There's dynamite blowing up, and you've got the the, police officer who's taking a break who they end up crashing together, and how do they find love in the midst of a kidnapping and a diamond heist and dynamite everything's up.

So I mean, it sounds amazing. That's awesome. So we will have the link in the show notes below, and then you have 16 other books or 17 other books that people can go

and check. Yes. Yes. I I have a lot of other books, and I would love it if you would all check them out. If you like reading good, clean Christian fiction, women's fiction specifically, then, check check out check out my Amazon page.

You'll find what you like.

Yes. And we will have links the links

to your newsletter. Leave reviews. We shall leave reviews.

Please. That shall leave reviews. Yes. And then we'll have janesdaily.com, but we'll have it in the show notes below as well. So you guys can check out her website where you can see all her books or her Amazon site.

But thank you so much, Jane, for coming and chatting. I feel like we could just chat for a long time.

Oh, this has been really fun. My husband asked me today, well, what are you gonna talk about? And I was like, I don't know.

I don't know. Get it.

He's like, okay. Well, I'm gonna go to the store. Good.

Two girls who like writing. We can't

shut up. Yeah.

Well, thank you so much.

Chat. It was awesome. Have you seen.

Bye.

Alright. Bye.