Ep 324 Writing Her Grandparents' Escape with Ann Marie Stewart

Welcome to Pencils and Lipstick. This is a podcast for indie authors. I'm Cat Caldwell, novelist, short story writer, and book coach. Here on Pencils and Lipstick, we're obsessed with bold things story, and it is my goal to bring you the writing tips that you need to make your novel come to life. Hi, everyone.

Welcome to Pencils and Lipstick. I am Cat Caldwell and this is episode three twenty four. Today I am interviewing Anne Marie Stewart. Anne Marie Stewart is the Christie awards winning author of Stars in the Grass, and she has a new book coming out called The Remnants that you are going to hear a lot about. This book comes out on 10/10/2026, but you can click the links in the show notes below to, pre order it.

So she is a teacher, a singer, an actress, a filmmaker. So she has a lot of different perspectives on writing and storytelling. And it was very interesting to talk with Anne Marie Stewart. Her books are like all just a little bit different. So I love, as you know, talking with writers who aren't just sticking to, well, I like talking to all writers, right?

But to, it's interesting always to hear writers who are, are kind of cross crossing their genres and seeing how they're doing it. She's also a traditionally published author, so if anybody is looking for traditional publishing, she has all of her, story to tell you today. Now before we get into the interview, please like and subscribe wherever you are listening. It is really nice to see some new reviews out there, and new subscriptions out there. I know that there are a lot of podcasting apps that you can use and so it's difficult to sort of bring everyone onto one spot.

But remember, you can also watch the interviews on YouTube because of course we have to be everywhere. And now I'm actually putting the YouTube videos on, or the interview videos on my Substack as well. So if you are looking for a way to support the show, it is just me, one woman show, just trying to get everything put together, the clips. The really nice thing about Subsec is it creates clips for me, and it doesn't cost me more money. So that is very nice.

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Next week, the September 21, we will come back with Craft and Connect and Becky Grogan and I are working on something really fun because people keep asking us how can they market? How can they get the word out about their book? And so we were brainstorming quite a bit and there will be things that you like to hear and there will be things that you might not like to hear. But we're also working on a fall sort of inspiration calendar to help you, think of the ways to to talk about your book, whether it is the one that you're writing or the one that's already been published and to to talk about it either on your newsletter or your Substack or your social media. And so we're, we're coming up with something that you can download that will sort of help jumpstart your creativity so that it won't feel so difficult.

I know that a lot of times we get drained by all the other things in life, full time job, full time parenting, plus trying to write your book. And then sometimes you're just drained from thinking, oh, now I have to do the marketing, but I don't know what to do. So we're going to try to help you out with that. Okay. All right.

So please be sure to check out Anne Marie Stewart's, link in the show notes. It's just annemariestewart.com. And please remember that The Remnants is coming out on October 10. She's going to talk a lot about this book. It's really interesting how she came up with this story.

And so if you are wanting to pre order it, please be sure to click the links in the show notes below. But, without further ado, let's get into the interview. Okay. Hi, Anne Marie Stewart. Welcome to Pencils and Lipstick.

I'm excited to talk to you today.

Yes. Thank you for having me.

You are an award winning author. You're actually the my second this week. You've had you have quite a few rewards. So congratulations. It's very cool.

You. Sometimes I didn't even realize I got it. I was at the award ceremony, and they were reading the beginning of a book. And I didn't recognize mine because I thought they would be reading from the very beginning, and they read the first chapter. And I didn't get up right away to get the award.

I feel like that's familiar, but I don't wanna, like, jump the gun.

Yeah. That would be quite embarrassing. Yes.

Weird too is, like, once you're onto another project I mean, I always have to look things up. Like, it you know, today, what did I write there? You know? Somebody put a quote on Instagram, like, this is my favorite quote of this book. And I was like, I do not remember writing that, but, hey.

That was pretty good.

Yes. That happened to me too. Someone sent me a quote, and they said, I just love this. And I'm like, oh, that's nice. You know?

Where's that from? It's like, you wrote it.

You wrote it. I mean, we're so in our stories, like, intensely when we're writing them. Right? And then I don't think a lot of people understand that then you move on to intensely be in another story. So Yes.

Yeah. Can't remember everything. It's weird. Sometimes they can't even remember characters' names. How do they?

But we were talking

I love naming characters, though. I Do you? Go ahead. Yes. I love that's one of my favorite things.

As a kid, I would write I would make up create families, and I would name everybody in the family because I get to use up all my favorite names then. So no. Naming characters was one of my favorite things.

Okay. Do you have, like, a file of of names? Like, how do you

No. It has to just come to me. It has to fit. And then sometimes, like in Stars in the Grass, the name actually means something, and then I bring that out in the story Okay. That has even more relevance.

So That that's fun. Like, a a lot of writers that turn the the twentieth century would do that. Like, a lot of their names, the characters. I find it difficult, like, to find the right name. I will be on those baby name sites for too long.

Yeah. And do you ever have the problem, I will start with one name and then somehow at least two more characters end up with the same letter, you know, name?

But then it's easy to change because this is find and replace. So at least when I do decide to name a a a child or name a kid, but yeah. Yeah. So

So it's really the main characters that means something. And I always have to think, like, the more books you write, the more you have to remember what everyone else's names were, and you can't repeat them. Right? Because they're not Right. Yeah.

Wanna mix it up. Right. But then you also so do you do audiobooks?

I haven't yet, and I really am looking forward to doing that with Yeah. Any of mine. I don't know if I wanna narrate, though, because it's stressful. Yeah. Yeah.

It's very stressful.

The editing process. And I have a friend who's a nonfiction writer, so she's reading hers. I'm like, there's, like, a whole learning curve to it.

Oh, yeah. And you gotta know if if your voice is right for it or you have the right pronunciation. So

Yeah. That's another thing. I know I can't do accents in that I remember what I did the last time. You know, like, a page before, like, the character's name.

The consistency.

Yes. Yes. Like, I'm always amazed at how people can do that. So so you have written we were talking before that you write kind of, I I would I mean, I would consider your you a literary writer, but you have, like, historical. You kinda have an contemporary family saga.

So Yes. With what came first?

The first thing was literary fiction. Well, before I wrote some bible studies, which, of course, are nonfiction, but then, a short story that I wrote in graduate school at the University of Michigan, the Charles oh, I can't think of his last name. But he, famous author, he said, you know, you should do something more with us. And so I flushed out all the characters and gave them backstory and, made the resolution harder to get to Yeah. Put some more obstacles in their place.

And it I think it became a more satisfying conclusion then. And I just looked at it like, well, it's there's a question that has to be answered. And I think of all books as a question that have to be answered. And as a writer, you're writing that question, and you're trying to figure out what the answer will ultimately be.

Right.

And when you're a reader, the book has to be worth the question has to be worth the answer. And so how a book is written defines how the book is read as well. Because I usually try to pick up, say, seven or eight books, and then I flip through them until I find what I consider a redeemable. And a redeemable, in my definition, is one that's worth your time to read.

Now I just flip through books before you fully read them?

Well, I flip through if I want if I'm thinking about reading. I'll read the first couple pages. But what I'm saying is if the first put couple pages are poorly written, but I'm curious about the answer to the question the book proposes, then I just figure out what the what the answer is and put the book aside, and it's not worth my time to invest in. But when I get a book that I savor every word, then that's a book I wanna invest in. And if it has a satisfying conclusion, which doesn't mean it was a happy conclusion or a sad conclusion, but there's a quality of redemption in it that I've learned something or a character grew or I can transfer my learning somehow, then I consider that a redeemable.

Yeah.

And, I try to in my newsletters, I try to have I try to review redeemables so that my listeners are not just getting a review of a book, but they're getting one worth my time. Like, recently, I read Mercy Snow. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. But I don't think a lot of people have heard about it, and it was a total redeemable.

And I could I I reviewed it, and people then read it, and they're like, oh, I loved that book. And so it was so so fun to find one that wasn't so familiar to everybody. I wasn't just saying lessons in chemistry is a great book. It is a great book. But But everyone knows it.

Knows it. Yeah. The Nightingale. It's a great book. It's a great book.

Although I I recommended it to somebody the other day, and they're like, I've never heard of that book. I'm like, where were you ten years ago?

Like, I think you got your book. Be coming out shortly. So

Oh, is it? I hope that they stay true. Like, that book I mean, talking about, like, questions. And I don't know if I've never had the honor of interviewing Kristin Hannah, but, like, that was where as a writer, I was like, these questions of, like, kind of what's better, which is a question you explore too. Right?

Like, okay. It's not great that this guy moves into your house, but Right. Gosh. It really got worse when you got rid of him. And, like, what could have happened?

Just like isn't that like life when you're looking back and you're just like, all these little decisions lead? I mean, it's a masterpiece, honestly, of of how we should write.

Well and I some of the novels, I wouldn't compare myself to Kristin Hannah in, you know, popularity or whatever. But when you put it through, like, an AI or something, it'll say your book is similar too or

I bet. Yeah.

And I I consider that a high read a lot of her novels. I really enjoy her writing. I don't love all of them equally, but, that Nightingale was yes. That was a masterpiece. Although, about 12 pages in, there's she has an error on timeline.

I'm I wonder if it's been fixed since. But yeah. And I don't know if I should even say this, but she likes to say tented her eyes against tented her eyes, which is really cool concept, you know, definition of racing against the sun. But it was, like, in almost all of her books. I thought, well, this is kind of interesting.

Yeah.

I'm surprised that her editor I would blame the you know, as a writer, I would blame the editor of, like, why don't you point that out? Yes. I just I have I don't know why people are so against Colleen Hoover. I think she writes the books that that for her audience, But I was kind of mad that they I've only read one of her books, the one where they made the first movie out of. I actually I admire the fact that she's willing to face head on, like, issues, like abuse, you know, and how nuanced it is and how different, like, situations come up.

But they did not edit out the word just, and it was, like, inundated with the word just, which is Yeah. You know, as a writer, you're just trying to get the writing on. And then I think it was one of her first books. Like, she was pretty young and didn't know. You know?

We don't know what we don't know. But I was like, why would you not have edited that out? You that's your job as an editor to fix, like, if she's making the same mistake or not mistake really even just like you shouldn't be using the same words throughout each book. You know? I I don't know.

Yeah. Exact exactly. And editors, that's what they're so good at doing. They'll find that word that, oh my goodness. I didn't realize I was using that word all the time.

So Right. We don't. Now, once you know you the just is a problem, then you just put it in, find it. You know? And you'll be like, oh, you have 5,000 of them somewhere.

I know. It's just like with my very first book, a friend of mine read it. You know? Of course, like, back then, I was just always nervous every time somebody said that they read my book. Like, oh, what did you think about it?

And he said, you used the word lips three time 12 times. And I was like, is that a lot? Like, what's it like? And he's not a row a historical romance reader. So I was like, I kinda went back and looked and, you know, I made decisions on whether or not.

But I thought it funny that he he kept seeing it, And then, you know, you sort of have to decide, well, is he the ideal reader? Should I change it? Should I not? But he had gone back and counted.

Well, there's some words that are hard to replace too.

Yeah.

It's like, well You know, you got lip and mouth, and that's what you got.

About all we got. Right? So so what was your first book? Was it Stars in the Grass or out of the one?

Novel was, Stars in the Grass. Okay. And then the second when that one came out of kind of a question, what would happen if, a family, a a family of faith with a pastor dad lost a child in kind of unexplainable, undefinable circumstances? And what if the blame was shared by every member of the family? And how does a family of faith get through that afterwards?

That's a big question.

Yeah. And so Was that influenced

by something that you've seen and or witnessed in your own life? Or how did you No.

It's a fear of mine that I would lose a child. I think Yeah.

I think we all have

a Yes. I think, any mother's greatest fear is losing a child. So I thought if I wrote that fear, it wouldn't happen. And so if I just fleshed that whole thing out and made it happen on the paper, then it wouldn't happen in real life. And it hasn't happened in real life, and I hope it remains not happening in real life.

But I can no. No. I don't think I could know any greater grief than that. And for all parents that have gone through that, and I know parents that have gone through that. And in fact, I interviewed one woman who had gone through it and got a lot of kind of real feelings and physical reaction to right after her daughter's death.

And and so I felt like there was, even though I hadn't experienced it, a reality to the definition. Now it happens right at the beginning of the book, and so it's not like you're dreading it all the way through. It happens, and then they live through it. And the characters grow and mature, and the family does stay intact, although there are moments when the obstacles are pretty high. But then after that book won a Christie award for best debut novel, then I went on to start working on Out of the Water, which was an adoption book.

And it kind of I'm I'm more by your pants writer. I'm a pantser. I start writing, and then I write in my brain when I go to bed at night. So I write chapters in in my head, and then I hope that I can

Then then I was gonna say, do you remember?

Yeah. And then but it's funny because alright. And then I'll discover, oh my goodness. That person is so and so's mother. I didn't know that.

And it's like a great discovery as I try to put the puzzle pieces together. Because that book is a big puzzle. It's, from the viewpoint it's different timelines and from the viewpoints of different female protagonists. And so it's it was a puzzle to be put together, and I just that's my favorite, of my published books so far. So oh, yeah.

And

Why did you choose adoption as was it just one thing that you're curious about?

I think that adoption and is and then well okay. I would say it goes back to my cousin being adopted and not knowing who her biological parents were, nor was she really interested in finding out who it it was. I was desperately curious to find out who her biological parents were. And it was interesting to me because, her parents said they when they were at the lawyer's office, the paperwork got pushed across there was from across the table, they could see the biological mother's name on the paperwork. Now this is from, like, nineteen sixties, so when things are all closed.

And so they always knew the name, and they knew she was, like, famous or something like that. And, we're, like, from a wealthy family. I know. But, at the time, the daughter wanted to, meet with the mother. The mother didn't wanna meet.

And the time the mother wanted to meet, the daughter didn't, and then the daughter died. My cousin died. So they never did, and I never found out who the person was. But I've also found it very curious that when people adopt, it always seems like the kid ends up looking like the the parent. Like, I don't know whether Yes.

I know quite a few adopted people, and it is so funny, like, that that happens. Yeah. It's just so interesting.

So her brother, this girl's brother, was also adopted, and he is the son of the man that I'm writing about in my current novel. And, he was the only kid that did look like he was the only redhead in our whole family, and all my mom's, siblings and her parents are redhead. So he was the only redhead in that generation of that grandchildren. So he looked more like he belonged in the family than anyone else.

Than anyone else? That's so funny. I always like I I used to be obsessed with the the Hollywood stars of the forties. And now I'm forgetting. She was married to Jimmy Stewart.

I can't remember her name. That's terrible. I can't remember her name, but she adopted a baby because they tried forever. And then Yeah. They had a baby, and so they were very close in age.

And I just remember in one of her interviews, the the the journalist asked her, which one is yours? And her response was

both. Please say both.

Yeah. She was like, both. And if you can't tell the difference, that's, you know, that's why they're both of mine. And I was like, oh my gosh. So adoption has always had for a long time, has had a stigma.

You know? And and weirdly enough, like, a lot of people who are adopted were just sort of sent around, like, shipped off to to different and I'm talking, like, a hundred years ago. Right? Like, shipped to other families, like, and just sort of plopped down. But, but these days, you you don't really ask that question.

And I I know quite a few people, both young and old, who have been adopted, and everyone's reaction to that is very different. Like, do they want to meet their biological? If they do, how nice of a time it is or how not nice of a time it is. It's a very difficult and nuanced reaction. So how did you research that and and sort of make a decision on how your characters I guess your characters decided how they were gonna react.

Well, I had a a high school friend of mine had talked about I think it's called WARM. Interesting, acronym. But from Washington Adoption Reunion Movement or something like that. I don't know. And he he talked about how this organization works at uniting adoptive, parents biological parents and adopted children.

And supposed

to be the closed ones, I assume.

Yeah. And see, now you don't have as much of the closed thing, which I believe that I believe in open adoption. It sort of takes away all of the questions, and it allows a healthy relationship for both adoptive and biological parents. Because most of the time, biological parents will end up backing away. They'll see, oh, the adopt and the kid knows that my parent is out there, but I have I have my current parents, my true parents that are raising me.

Right. And so in this case, the girl is a nursing student at UVA. My daughter is a nursing student at UVA. And, she becomes curious, and she, talks to her parents about it. And they're the dad is not in favor of her looking, and the mom, it the mom is okay and will help her with it.

But there becomes some reasons why the dad because he has his own secrets behind it all. But I had to create my own acronym, not WARM, so I made RAFT. And that was it's it stood for, what their, agency that was helping her out with. But the I got to have the agency warn her of all of the statistics of how many biological parents actually want to be reunited. And in this case, the biological mother did not want to be reunited.

The and that's a backstory too about why she the trauma in her life. Ultimately, they do get reunited, but, spoiler alert a little bit. But, it there are times that the biological parent, for good reasons, isn't ready to open her life up, and maybe they've never told their family, which is what happened in this case.

Yeah. Yeah. But I think this is what's so great about literature is that you can explore these questions, and we can safely see it from different points of view of, like because if you're in the moment of, like, well, why wouldn't she want to meet you? You know? I mean, especially if you're if you're friends with somebody and the support that you're giving that person is like, of course, she would want to meet you.

She's missing out. But the that question's always lingering that people all have their story. Right? And they all have the things that they're dealing with, and it's such a great way to explore that and and maybe answer the questions for some people.

Yes. Yeah. And that ultimately is the question being asked and out of the water, Is it always better to know the truth? Is it will it be better for her to know the truth to know who her biological mother is? And then is it all of the unraveling of other stories causes people to learn some truths that they may or may not have wanted to know.

In this case, I would say it is better to know the truth in this book, and the reader will get to know the truth, through, yeah, a lot of stories and a lot we get

to wrap it up for the for literature. Right?

And I love that. I love to tie a bow, not so neat that it's unrealistic, but, I love to tie it all up where people go.

Ah. Yes.

That's a good feeling. And to me, that's a redeemable then. You know, when you feel like, okay. Got that question answered. I know these characters.

I wish I could've met them in real life. Mhmm. And I wanna see the movie version.

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And I I think that what's missing in a lot of literature these days is actually asking that question and really digging into that question. I think people have taken this idea that we're not, like, it's so so much fast food consumption of books, like a fast food books.

You know? And they take this these ideas, these big ideas, but they don't explore them very deeply. Like, I I I have you seen the movie Mother's Day? I tried to watch it on Mother's Day. It was and there there's one theme of adoption.

I I think in this movie, they tried to pay all the the big actresses, like Julia Roberts, Jennifer Aniston, everyone's in it. And the story is so shallow. Like, there's nothing to it. Like, the whole adoption part of the story is just so not satisfied. I was so mad.

I I was like, I'm not even gonna finish this because I know too many people in my life where this is a much bigger deal and it goes much deeper and there are many more questions. And so I I just I want books to look a little bit deeper, like, take a little more time and actually fuss out all the things that could happen, like the reality of it.

Yeah. Because because then the reader's left questioning. I I wanna ask this one question. Hello? I'm raising my hand.

I'm asking this one question, but there's no way. And it's interesting because I did a film, and I realized that performing, like singing, writing, doing a film, it all is very different with your audience. Because, like, if I'm singing or I'm speaking or I'm performing, you you get a sense of your audience, and you change a little bit as you're going. You look toward an area where someone's sleeping or whatever, and you try to wake them up. Basically, let me wake you up.

But when you and when you write, you can write, and then you can revise, and someone can go, I didn't understand this one part. Can you explain this? And then you go back and you change it because Right. That's what you gotta do. But the frustration of film about I didn't have a lot of opportunity to show the film to a lot of people.

So the first time it goes up on screen, you're looking at it and going, I wanna explain. I wanna explain why I didn't get that one thing. I wanna explain. I wanna go you know? And I can't.

And I'm hoping they get it. And so I think editing and revising is my favorite part of writing because I gotta shape and cut out the darlings and, enhance the things that are beautiful. And, yeah.

Yes. I think that's a sign of somebody who who knows their craft. Like, I have talked to probably over 250 authors at this point. And in the very beginning of the podcast, somebody told me editing is my favorite part. And at that point, I had, I think, two books done or yeah.

Two books. And I thought, really? Like, really? I mean, I was deep and still, like, preschool, you know, years and all that. And I was just so overwhelmed.

My my I knew at the core of me, what I wanted was the the end draft because I don't ever think it's a first draft. It's a much revised end draft that, like, I hope that it's good enough that I don't have to edit it. And now that I'm much more mature, I would say, much older, I think editing actually is because you just you get to bring the story to the life form that you want the reader to see, and it's really impossible to do that the, quote, unquote, first time around. You know, whatever you however you edit and write to get to that.

Well, you've been chipping out a statue, and the form only became more clear as you That's a great visual. And then you're left with the statue of David. No. You're left with something hope. Amazing.

And if you've left off a left a big clump on it or or, you needed somewhere form at another area, then then the reader's left with a question that doesn't get answered.

So Yeah. And we don't we don't want that. So how did you come up with your the the remnants? This is a historical, novel. Yes.

It's based on a true story. So this is, what

I'm gonna do with this is the first novel that I've ever worked on. So I began this over forty years ago, almost well, over fifty years ago. Yeah. My dad had a vision that my his his wife, my mom, he's just said, you know, you need to tell grandpa and grandma's story. And my grandfather had written a lot of documents and but they're more like first person, and he's sort of a proud German.

And it wasn't a voice that I think the average reader would have wanted to read. And there was more to the story because my grandma's story was equally as intriguing. So my grandparents, basically, they were Germans in Russia, and that's Catherine the Great in the late seventeen eighties had invited Germans over so that she would have, they would kinda conquer the land, so to speak, and farm it and do it the German way, and they would be supportive of her as a leader. So you have all these Germans over there, and they're succeeding, and they're the breadbasket of the of of Russia. And then, we have Lenin and Stalin, and he wants them out, and there's persecution and so forth.

So my grandparents leave the Crimean Peninsula, which, you know, that's an intriguing place unto itself, the diamond shaped shaped jewel in the Black Sea that changes hands over centuries, over and over. And they flee to Moscow because they've heard some people have gotten out. Unfortunately, when they get there, they are not letting anyone out anymore.

So this is their story. This is

This is their story. This is 1929. Wow. And they get up to Moscow, and there are 17,000 Germans packed into this outlying areas in the former summer houses of the czar people. And they're getting sick.

They're diseased. They're everything's happening, and they can't get out. And my grandfather is one of the leaders, people petitioning the government to try to get out. So he's made a name for himself that's not gonna be good. He yeah.

And so now we're getting into

Would you think, like, if you want us out, you would let us out. That's what's so weird about humans. It's like

I know. I know. Well, part of the problem was when they wanted out, it's sort of like their Germanness had no borders. Germany had initially really wanted to get even though they hadn't been German in Germany for years. I was just thinking,

like, they're not really

German. In their minds. So they would have helped. But now we get to October 1929, and there's a stock market crash.

Yes.

And the world is in a state of flux, and nobody wants them. So Stalin is like, well, if you're not going west, you're going

east, and

that's Siberia. So at after the twelfth anniversary of the revolution, Stalin had it said, I'm going to start arresting them all and deporting or jailing or exiling or killing, whatever. And my grandmother was nine months pregnant. Oh, wow. And they and so one night, my grandfather is arrested, and my, his my grandmother's sister has left with, their the older boy.

He's only three, older. Yes. Because they had lost one baby to the illness that was rampaging through the these. And so my grandma's name is pregnant. So she goes into a hospital, which is more like a mother baby home.

I mean, it's so cold that babies are getting chilblains. They call them chilblains on their heels. Like, it's just so cold. So it's not like, oh, this is a safe space. But the doctor there knew she was in trouble, and she wasn't delivering.

She was not close to delivery yet. And he took her in so that she'd be safe. That left this her sister and her son in the cabin, and then they disappear. So my grandma's in the mother baby home with no clothing. They didn't allow you to leave clothing.

No money. She doesn't know where her husband is because he's been arrested. Her sis and then suddenly her sister and her son are no longer visiting. So heartbreaking. Yeah.

Oh my god. Story and then there are just some absolutely bizarre things that happen that you could only count them as a miracle because Yeah. How would this happen?

Yeah.

And, and and, eventually, they do get out that they have to leave the three year old behind.

Oh, that's so heartbreaking.

So, you know, obviously, the first thing readers ask, does did they ever get back? You know? So there's these quest the questions are in that book are, what do you sacrifice for your freedom? And what do you, what how much are you willing to give up? I mean, this is their homeland.

They loved living on the Crimean Peninsula until

I'm sure. They've been there for a hundred plus years. They're not

they're not, like, German. It's just so weird. Well and they're they're these communities are so tight knit. This is Yeah. There's a word in German call and the word is.

And it's the closest we could come to is homeland, but we have no word that encompasses the word Heimat. Heimat is your food and your culture and your land and your your spiritual growth, whatever. It's it's so deep, and that's what they had there. And I look at it, like, years later when my grandparents were in North Dakota. It's a it was such a different living environment.

In Russia, they have these very, very wide lanes, and there's only one wide lane in the whole village. Okay? But all the houses, it's more like, their homes are right next to each other and then go go deep out with and so you're a spitting distance from your neighbor's front door, and it's a community, a community of 10 to 12 families. But what does America do? They have these homesteads or they have these homes, and they're separated by miles.

Yeah. The land, the farms separate them. That's not the same No. Kind of community. No.

And so

It's actually detrimental to us. I I can see why in the sixteen hundreds, people were anxious and and loving the idea of their own land because most of them were coming from being surfs or, you know, being sort of under the thumb. But I think event what they didn't realize in the future is how very lonely American culture would become. Like, that would be very that is very different for immigrants to come and and see. Like, my husband's Spanish, so we're over there all the time.

It's the same. You have the village and then the farmland that goes out. Yes. Yes. And to see the difference between what my mother-in-law has and her fam and her friends and her family and the ability to access speaking to humans versus what happens when you become a widow or a widower here in in The States is it's very shock it's very black and white, like, very different and opposite.

And Mhmm. I think America, for all our independence loving, we're missing out. Right? So they must have had a really hard time feeling so isolated.

Well, there was I wrote a short story that, I'm entering in a contest that is because it it will never be in in one of the books because it's in the nineteen thirties, you know, after they've come to America. But, as that's something I heard that happened to my grandmother. My and this is this encapsulates the difference between living in a very cold climate in Russia versus a very cold climate in North Dakota because 1936 was a very, very cold year in North Dakota, and they had I mean, the temperature could go up with the wind chill, like, negative 58 and and things like that. You know? So they my grandfather needed more money than he made as a preacher, and so he took on a teaching job 60 miles away from their house.

Oh

my gosh.

So during the winter, my my grandmother had three little girls and two boys that she needed to take care of in that house. Well, the temperature went down, and she that you heat a house by coal Mhmm. Then. Okay? And this is also so metaphorical to the Russian house, which has a back oven in the center of the house, which heats the whole house.

Okay. Now you've got this coal stove, and you gotta feed this coal stove. Well, the delivery did not come. And so my grandmother was running out of coal. And now this is a time when people would just freeze to death in their home.

The room the living room with the front room had a glass of water that was frozen.

Yeah. Yeah.

So now you've got and so they she ran out, and your only option is and here's the question. Should you then use the coal lignite, which is the, just the crumbs, which can explode. And so you have house fires with Yeah. When people use this. So, no, you shouldn't use it.

But if that's the only thing you have to burn, that's what you do. So, indeed, it did explode, and she was. But and so she was completely out. And then and then and then one day, she's before the storm and they got completely encapsulated, she climbed up on the top of the, windmill because, the blizzard was coming in, and her kids walk the one mile to school, okay, or back. Yeah.

And she can't see them, and it's getting dark. And she knows they'll just freeze to death out there. I mean, and we we we worry about putting our kid on the school bus.

I know.

Yeah. Here it is. She's looking out on a ladder on the top of a windmill, looking miles to the schoolhouse, hoping to see two little, a six and an eight year old boy. Right. And then a car drives up, and she's like, this is gonna be bad news.

But two little boys run out and run-in the house, and they have frostbite. They and, but somebody had found them walking home. And so, I mean, this scenario of trying to just keep your family alive

Yeah.

And not having a door that's walking distance where your neighbor would share whatever was needed. Now you're so, indeed, one neighbor just said he couldn't sleep during the night, couldn't sleep. He just kept thinking about the family. The next day, he started going out. He couldn't get his truck to go.

It was just too heavy drifts. So we loaded it down with manure, and he got to my grandmother's house and said, you know, do you have do you need food, or is there something you need? And she goes, I need coal. And he goes, oh, so that's why I'm here. And he brought her coal, and they lived through the winter.

Isn't that I

mean, every time I think reading history and, honestly, I love historical fiction because you can you can sort of get the best of both worlds. But to remember that we have it pretty good. You know what I mean? Like, I I mean, our grandparents lost several you know, lost children. Like, it was a it was a norm.

It was Yeah. You know, like, you would lose babies. You would people would I mean, in North Dakota, if no one's been in North Dakota, that's the kind of place where, like, a blizzard will come and you will die three feet from the house because you literally can't see. Like, it's a really crazy state. I always question why people live there because, like, this is and there's no trees to cut down.

It's literally a prairie. Like, people have purposely planted trees. It's just a very different environment. Yeah. So it it's it's very harsh without any modern And

when you think about this idea when we're talking about community and the ability to go door to door, and now what do we have even though we are closer? We have a loss of community Isn't that right? Because of our devices. Our devices, which were supposed to bring people closer together, have caused walls to form between people.

Yes. Isn't that it it's really it's really sad. I think for one for writers, it's always giving us more and more questions to answer. Right? So we we will always be able to, like, maybe put those into a story.

But as as a community and as humans in the real world, it's it's sad. I when I moved here, we had that so we had moved from Texas, and it was my grandmother. I was calling her because it was that freeze in Texas, and Texans are not ready for it in their houses. Well, you'd be surprised if your gas is cut off, how very little shelter your house actually gives you. You know?

The these are not our houses are really all the Europeans are like, it's it's like plywood. It's like, well, it's a little bit more than that. But, yeah, compared to, like, the adobe brick, you know, like, houses that they make there. And I remember asking neighbors of ours because they're older, you know, are you prepared? Do you have it?

Do you have everything? Because I'm from the Midwest. That's like Right. It's the Midwest. Your, East Coasters don't do that.

They were all shocked to open their door and see me, and what do you want? And I was like, wow. You guys live closer together, and yet you don't know each other, and you don't look out for each other. It was a very strange, experience. Yes.

Whereas in the Midwest, we're very separate. We all had farms, but we would make sure everyone

was okay. Yeah.

But I guess it's because maybe we had the experience or the stories from our grandparents of what happens if you don't check Yes. Up on people. So

Yes.

So the remnants took you had the idea of it, but when did you start writing it?

Like Oh, I started interviewing my grandparents when I was about 19. My dad Oh, wow. Was a legal secretary. Yeah. I was a legal secretary during the summers in my dad's law firm, and he said, why don't some of the days you go in and interview grandpa and grandma.

I'm so glad he did that.

Oh, I am too. And I wish he were alive now to see the published book, but he, yeah, he said, you go in there. And then I would go back to his office and I would type up everything that on the typewriter

Oh, okay.

Every electric typewriter because, oh, yeah, electric typewriter. And it had one bar space to go backwards, like, to clear, you know, a mistake. When people talk about revising and editing now and and kit you and I was a English teacher, and they're, like, rolling their eyes up wanting to do it, I'm like, you guys have it so easy. Cut and paste used to mean cut and paste. Literally.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I would write, and then I would go back and I would read it to my grandparents. And they would go, yeah, that's just what happened. And or they would say, don't don't don't put that in.

That's too personal or whatever. And I'd say, grandma, you've gotta have that in, because it really tells something about your inner strength.

Yeah.

And so we would, so we would do that. We go back and forth, back and forth. And I had a book, and then I in my naivety at about 22, 23, thought I should try to publish it, look at some, publishing houses. And it's like I think now I'm like, whew, god, that didn't get published. Oh, yeah.

Because I had so much growth as a writer to experience. I had I needed to be a mom to know what that would be like to have two children and abandon one and to save the other. I needed to, have more technology so that now I can get on Facebook, and there is American Historical Society for Germans out of Russia. And if I can pose a question, and in a couple maybe even within a minute, I can have the description of that hat. I can have the a a map of the location that I needed.

It's amazing how much help I've had. And I wanted to go to Russia, but, my husband's job at the time would not have allowed me to do that. And then by then I thought, well, I wanted to go to Crimea, actually. That that's what I wanted to go to. To.

And, my parents have gone. My, uncle has gone, but I didn't get to go because of my husband's job. And then all of a sudden, one day, I thought, I should go to Moscow at least because my husband's job had changed. And about a month later, Russia invaded Ukraine.

Yeah.

So that was I

was gonna say, for the last ten years, it's been a bit dicey be between Crimea and and Ukraine and yeah.

Yeah. And I just

I've always wanted to visit Russia, though. Like, I, like, I missed my chance in 2007. I just found out I was pregnant or six, I guess. Well, seven. I don't know.

Whatever. Like, it'll come backwards from that time, but now I kinda kick. I was like, no. I'm pregnant. And now I kick myself because I'm not sure it will ever get better.

No. I don't I don't think in our lifetime it will, be safe. And I asked my grandfather, after he got out, was always afraid of having to go back. Even though he was in The United States, he would tell me, you know, people can come up to you and touch you with the tip of an umbrella, and that is poison, and you can die. I mean, he and, I mean, indeed, he's it's true.

Yeah. And,

he did they did that only a few years ago in London, in all places.

Poor Navalny. I love Navalny. And, you know, I wish Navalny could've, you know, be there instead of Putin. But, and if I die after this podcast, she'll know because why? I think I

said somebody touched you with the umbrella.

But, yeah. So my grandfather was always afraid of that, that he would somehow get taken back because he was put in Lubyanka prison, which is a terrible, terrible prison. They say from its basement, you can it it's so tall that from its basement, you can see Siberia. Yeah. That's because

Right.

It's basically you're in Siberia when you're there. And so my grandfather was very afraid of that, and he never, in fact, had to go back. But, he he knew his name was Nikolai Siemens, and he was had been a very wanted man. So I got to ask the son that got left behind at an interview right before COVID. Oh, you found it.

I I I got to go and interview him. And in interviewing him, I said, so would you ever wanna go back to Russia? And he said, no.

So he he made it over to The US?

He made it to The US. I said, so you why why would you not wanna go? And he goes, because my name is Nikolai Siemens because he's his father's son. You know? And I thought, wow.

It's still a generation. He he he left when he was five, but the fear the fear was still there. Deep fear. And when I was visiting him, he brought out a little shirt, and it's blue and white striped. And I took a picture of him holding it up to his face.

And because I know all of his luggage was stolen on the train, I know that had to have been the shirt that he wore when he got back when he got back to when he met his his mother at the train station. So, like, I'm I'm like, I am the recipient of this treasure. You know? Yeah. It's just, like, amazing to me.

So and

so amazing. What an amazing story. I mean, this I think of above everything, this should encourage people to go talk to their grandparents and listen to their stories. I think that is one thing also because of our distance in America. We don't grow up with our grandparents as much.

Right. And I'm so glad your dad encouraged you because at 19, we don't all our brains do not think that grandma and grandpa won't be around possibly, and we don't think to interview them. You know? We might, like, listen to some of their stories, but it's really when people are gone that we go, wait. What what happened?

There are so many questions right now as I write the book. I would like, why didn't I ask him more about, like, the prison cell? The prison cell in Lubyanka is not something you can just Google and see a picture of. I mean, it's it's very, very secretive. So, there are definitely questions or feelings or timeline things I wish.

And I think if everybody at the very least, got out a tape recorder, their whatever on their phone and began logging, like, you know, grandpa tell me one or grandma tell me one story from that was scary or one story that was, one of the happiest moments of your life. And they now have that, I can't think of the name of it, but it's a book, my story or something like that. And you can give it as a gift to your to your parents, and they can write not everybody wants. Like, when my I gave it to my mom. She's like, oh.

And I'm like, mom, this was a gift. And she goes, okay. Okay. Well, she did it, and and it's a beautiful book. But I think it's as simple, though, as turning on pressing record.

Yeah.

And you can get that information down at least. Mhmm. And then your your parent or your grandparents having this experience of just talking to you Yeah. And and and feeling loved and not just at a computer clicking away. But they're getting to tell their story, and their story then leads to another story because oh oh, and then I forgot.

Oh, yes. And, and then sometimes they'll tell you they met a famous person or Right. You figure out they met a famous person. But Yes. And so I think it's really important that we get the stories.

When I was teaching junior high, I did have one assignment where I said, we're gonna write a book. And we're gonna put it's gonna be a book, a collection of all of you are gonna write a short story about somebody in your family. And so, like, one kid wrote about a situation in Vietnam his dad had been in, and one of them wrote about, the dust bowl their grandparents had been in. And so it was really, like, historical fiction in a collection. And I I thought that was an an important assignment.

Yes. I think we forget we a, like you said, it makes people feel seen and loved. I think we do get to a certain age. Like, my mom retired a few years ago, and she's like, it's amazing. I have a lot of information in my head, and no one cares.

Like, we get to a certain age, and everyone's just like, you feel very invisible. Right? But you have everyone who is still alive today has lived through enormous changes in the world. It is impossible that they don't have something to say. Yes.

That is different than literally their neighbor. I have I've had the pleasure of speaking to women who have grown up in the sixties on very different ends of, like, white, black, Asian, Hispanic in different places of the world, very different views, and then talking to them in their sixties and them being able to go back. And it's it's just amazing to listen to them, and I think we forget sometimes. We're, like, so obsessed with our own moment in the world. How much happened up in like, leading up to now.

It's almost more interesting, I think.

Right. And at least it's a slower pace. Like, I like, we talked about before, I feel like things are just thrown at you very, very fast. Mhmm. And I did a Kickstarter with, with the remnants.

And and then, and it's being independently published. So there's a steep, steep learning curve. And but I feel like at a a slower pace would have been really nice. Yeah. And I I also I think that just that idea that right now, if you have a question, you you have avocados and you have chicken in the refrigerator and you're thinking, you know, I don't I don't know what to make out of this.

And you just Google chicken, avocados, you know, and boom. But back then, you might have called your mom, or you might have called your grandma. Like, Chris my daughter, Christine, was saying that. Mom, we're missing this richness

Yeah.

Of connection where we call our mom and say, I don't know how to cook this turkey. And now we just ping, you know, put our phone by the stove, and we we give it a try, and we're not we're not as dependent when we should be on the generations that came before.

Yeah. And I think it's important as writers to encapsulate what that could look like and maybe encourage people through literature to to maybe do it in their own life. Right? Like that cooking. I think that that generational cooking is something that comes up a lot in literature.

You think, okay. Now go go do it. Go ask your mom for recipes. Go ask your grandmother how she Yes. My grandmother would measure on the the palm of her hand.

You know? I was like, grandma, that's I don't know how to measure that. She's like, well, I mean, more or less. You know? Like and just these little things, you you don't see that and unless you you are there.

So, anyway, we could we could probably encourage people to do this more and more.

It sounds like a good idea. It sounds like, yeah. I think maybe what people need is the list of questions. Mhmm. Then they would realize they didn't need the list of questions, but they might feel safer if they had the list of questions rather than grandpa, tell me about what it was like when you were a kid.

It's that's too vague. Whereas, like, my husband said, there was a time, like you said, he they lived in Oklahoma, and he was just, like, grabbing up one fence post to the next fence post to get back to the home.

Because of the wind?

Yeah. Wind or or I don't know if it was dust or or snow, literally. I I don't remember what it was, but it was like he could have died out there just, like you said, not very far from the house. Yeah. And so we need to know those stories.

And and so we're getting back to asking the question to find the answer.

Yeah.

And, we need to be hungry enough for that question too. Sometimes I don't have the patience. My husband's very good at asking older people questions and and finding out their past. Sometimes I'm less patient than that, and I think we all need to gain from that generation.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if anyone doesn't know what their next book should be, literally just talking talking to somebody. I think everyone has a story.

You never know where you're gonna find that story. Right? And Right. It's it is I think always remember, people get to a certain age and they feel invisible. If you just sit for a couple minutes, slow it down.

Yeah. Talk to the man with the veteran hat, you know, like you are what combat, you know, and having some time. You'll probably pull a whole book from it. You never know. Yeah.

Or one little part of it at least because every part of our life start I mean, we have we have a sheep farm. So, lambing came into one book. You know? One of the next books I'm gonna be writing, musical theater will come into it. And so we pull and draw, and and there are people I meet, and I'm like, that person is in the gonna be in my next book.

Doesn't mean it's the main character, but boy is that character

interesting. It's that seed. You know? So that's amazing. So where where can people find you, your books, and and keep following along?

You you post sheep videos so that that at the at the least

Yeah.

We need to go see your sheep and your book.

So, I can be found, on www.annemariestewart.com. So my whole author name, Stewart with a w, annemarie stewart dot com. And, that's probably the best place, and then they could sign up for my newsletter, which only comes out monthly. So and it will have reviews of redeemable books. And, usually, we'll have a recipe in it and just some sort of I call it the upside.

It's just like looking at things from the upside of things, and especially in this world right now. I think we all need to look up a little more and look for things that make us feel a little more up. And that'll give the progress of how to get the book,

Okay.

The Remnants. So and, yeah, I do have a YouTube channel. I guess it's also my name. But and I'm on Facebook too, but, that's about it.

Yeah. Newsletters are always the way to go, guys. So you They

are always the way to go.

So we will have the link in the show notes for people to call.

And when people blast you, like, every three days with a newsletter, I usually don't last because it just accumulates, and I can't prioritize which one's the most important.

Exactly.

I just I only want one, like, you know, twice a month at the most. Yeah. That keeps me

Well and if you're gonna do a book review, you gotta finish the book so that you can actually talk

about it more. Yeah.

Well, thank you so much, Anne Marie, for coming on Pencils and Lipsic and talking to us.

Yes. Great. Thank you for having me.