Ep 327 You’re Never Too Young to Publish with Gracie Macpherson

Welcome to Pencils and Lipstick. This is a podcast for indie authors. I'm Cat Caldwell, novelist, short story writer, and book coach. Here on Pencils and Lipstick, we're obsessed with all things story. And it is my goal to bring you the writing tips that you need to make your novel come to life.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Pencils and Lipstick. This is episode 327 of the podcast. And today, I am talking to probably my youngest guest, ever in the six years. So it's really exciting to talk to people of all ages who are getting into writing.

I've talked to quite a few young people who have dreams of writing and publishing, and this is sort of proof to them that you can do it. You can absolutely do the work and get a book out there and be proud of it and just continue. You don't have to wait until you are in your twenties, thirties, forties, whatever it is. So great... Grace McPherson is my guest and I think that you're really going to enjoy listening to her.

So a few things before we get started into the interview, I am leaving Thursday for a missions trip. I'll be back, in like ten days to a week and a half. So the episodes are still gonna be going out, but we are going to move, the craft and connect to the last week of the month. So you'll have Naomi Kuttner next week and then Jamie Bradley's coming in. She talked to me as well, another romance writer.

So you guys are set for the month of October for interviews. You're gonna have so much fun listening to them. So as much fun as I had, interviewing them and just want to give a shout out to my grandmother before I leave on my trip. She turns 100 and I am so excited for her. I think it's so amazing.

So I do actually get to stop by and see her as well. I hope that you guys are getting some writing done. I know that ProWritingAid is doing a novel November, in the month of November. So if you are going to be participating in that, I'd love to hear, about your experience there. Fall hopefully will finally come as far as weather.

I can't wait. I am moving along. I actually got together with a friend of mine and we are sending chapters back and forth, which has been a really big help of getting some things done, in in the historical romance. So I am excited about that. So that is, you know, never never give up.

You, like, try new things. I've never done this before, but it's definitely worth a try. If you know another writer, you guys can, exchange chapters and we're not editing or anything, but it's more like, you know, like I have to send these chapters, the accountability. Right? So if you love the show, please, you know, give a give a review, share it with other people.

If you wanna see me and the other guests, you can watch on YouTube. You can also participate on, Substack. You can become a, like, I don't know what those are called sponsors or members or something. It is just a one woman show over here. So I appreciate all of you who are following me on Substack and, just supporting monetarily.

But if you know writers, just share the show with them. If you want to be on the show, remember you have to have three books published, but definitely pitch me. I would love to hear your pitch. You can find me on on Instagram. You can find me on TikTok and you can find me, if you join my newsletter, you can just reply to any newsletter.

If you are on social media, I have set up a whole lot of videos and posts for the month of October of specifically talking about my books and prepping those was a lot, honestly. So I plan on sort of thinking through that and writing up about it and talking about it as well. So if you wanna sort of see how to talk about your books, believe me, several of those videos took several takes, but you can follow along on Instagram or TikTok. You can always find the links to my socials in the show notes below. Alright, so it is October 5 as we're listening to this.

Let's get into the interview and listen to Grace McPherson's story. Remember that you can find her, information, her books and her website in the show notes below

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well. Alright, everyone. Welcome back to Pencils and Lipstick. I am joined today by possibly my youngest guest, so I'm excited to speak with Grace McPherson. Hi, Grace.

How are you doing?

Good. How are you?

Good. Good. I'm excited to talk to you because as many writers start off really young writing or, like, we know how to write or we love story, you got into it and publishing very young. So I wanna hear a little bit about this. Like, how old were you and what was the first thing that you published?

Yeah. So I was 16 when I published my first novel, and that was The King's Sword. I have a copy of the second edition here. I forgot to grab a copy of the first edition. I didn't know what I was doing really.

Both of my parents are self published nonfiction authors.

Okay. So

they were mentoring me through the process. But, of course, fiction and nonfiction are very different Yeah. Even just on a design level. So I published a second edition last fall, to get a better cover and kind of revamp the interior design. Yeah.

But you had a 16.

16. Okay. So when did you start writing that story?

I was 13 when I started writing that novel, and my first complete novel length manuscript, I think I finished when I was 13.

Okay. But

it wasn't very good.

Well, I mean, no matter what our age is, our first one's usually not good when we look back. But what what got you into writing then so young?

I always loved reading. I like to read very young. I was homeschooled. So I think when I was about three, my mom started reading lessons with me because I was, you know, starting to pick up on letters and whatnot. So I was reading independently by, you know, age three or four.

Oh my goodness. And I'm a very fast reader. And so as I was, you know, reading all these books, I was going, oh, that would be interesting if, you know, we recombined these elements in this way or something like that. Yeah. So my earliest written stories are from when I think I was about five, and they're about penguins who are princesses.

And

as as they should be.

Yeah. They were very five year old stories. But... And then as I got older, I guess maybe starting when I was around eight or 10, I had a group of homeschooling friends and we had a newspaper that we ran for our families. So each week we'd bring in a different article we wrote and then we'd photocopy it at whoever's house we were at that week and then, you know, distribute them to the families.

Yeah. So that was kind of my first experience publishing something.

And then deadline playing a lot around with different things that you... Okay. That's very cool. Yeah.

And needing to work with other people to do that too. No kidding.

It's It's always the challenge.

Yeah. And then as I got older, I increasingly realized, okay. This is something I really enjoy, and I'm getting a lot of positive feedback and people saying this is really good. You should publish something. So I decided to go for it.

I think it was high school assignment and homeschool to publish a novel, which sounds like quite the high school assignment,

but I was

I was all for it. So

so what what got you into fantasy? Because you call yourself a Christian fantasy writer. What got you into that genre?

I've always loved reading fantasy, but I've also equally loved other genres as a reader. So I'm honestly not quite sure what first got me into it, but I read the Lord of the Rings when I was, I think, around eight. My mom was horrified. Like, what am I supposed to give this child to read if she just read the Lord of the Rings in a week and she's... Like, oh, I keep up with her.

But I I really loved that, and I think that's probably what got me into fantasy. But I've also always loved mysteries and then classics. I'm Mhmm. For some reason not as much a fan of historical fiction, but I love, like, the Anne of Green Gables series, Jane Austen. So, you know, a lot of those classic series.

And I think with fantasy, part of what drew me to that was I enjoyed the more old fashioned world of the classic stories, but I didn't want to do the research for that.

Mhmm.

And I'm also a perfectionist, and so if I tried to write historical fiction, I would drive myself crazy trying to make sure every detail was accurate. But fantasy lets me kind of bring that in in a looser way. And then also growing up homeschooled, I found contemporary fiction very intriguing to me. Like, any book that had people going to school was interesting to me. I loved the Harry Potter series because they went to boarding school and it's such a foreign world to me, like, as a homeschooler.

Yeah. But then also... Sorry, I lost that train of thought. I'm intrigued by that, you know, contemporary world, but also having no experience in it, especially as a very young writer, is kind of like, well, what can I write about then? So it ended up being fantasy where I can kind of explore these more old fashioned worlds and sometimes, you know, urban fantasy.

So it is in the real world, but where I'm able to kind of explore that in a different way without needing it to be as accurate to real life or to history. So I think that's a big part of it.

Yeah. I think that that makes a lot of sense because I remember being very young, long, long time ago, and writing and thinking kind of the same thing. Like, I grew up in Wisconsin. What is there to write about? There's a lot of cows.

And so, like, thinking, I I was not into fantasy then, but I'm surprised that I wasn't. So I think it makes a lot of sense to see a world where you can make it up. Mhmm. So I have spoken to other Christian fantasy writers, and I've actually... I've interacted with Christians from different denominations who are against fantasy, which I always find very strange because CS Lewis is, like, the number one, and then Tolkien.

So have you had any problems, any pushback on that, or or are your parents and the people around you very accepting of that, Donna?

Yeah. No. The the Christian denomination I'm in, I'm conservative Lutheran, and then my family and, you know, like, community have all been super supportive. I have had... There's one one time when I was selling books at a conference, and I think it was this edition of the Kingstarts.

You know, you look at it and it's like, is it fantasy? Is it, like, a medieval story? Story? It could kind of go either way. So I had a mom pick it up and was looking at it and asked if it was fantasy, and I said, yeah.

But that one doesn't have magic in it. Some of my other series do. That one just didn't need it for the story. So I'm like, okay. And she was like, oh, and kinda put it down and back to it.

I was like, okay.

So That's so funny. But it it is interesting the different readers that we have and Yeah. How you have to sort of navigate that.

Yeah. And I I I don't understand really the objection to it, but at the same time, I want to be, you know, respectful of my readers' boundaries. So, like, I'm upfront about that's what I write because I know there are some conservative readers who might, you know, if it was historical fiction or whatever, might be interested in it. But since it's fantasy, they're not. I'm like, okay.

Like, that... That's your decision to make. But

Yeah. Absolutely. And the the last thing you need is the non ideal reader reading it and getting mad. Right. There's something we talk about a lot on this podcast.

You need to find your ideal reader. So when you decided to publish this... Your first book, what what process did you do? Did you get an editor? Did you, like, work with somebody?

Or how how did you know, I guess, what was the the real beginning, middle, end, and this this book was ready to go?

I did everything wrong. That's not okay. So now for the first edition of the King's Sword, I didn't have an editor. I had as beta readers my parents, my sister, and my best friend.

I mean, this is not unusual. This is... Yeah.

Yeah. I did the cover design myself, and I did the formatting myself. So I did everything wrong, and then I was like, I wonder why this isn't spelling well. And then I learned more about marketing. I was like, maybe if I, you know, got a professional cover and made, like, the inside formatting look nice, that would help with this.

So that's what I did. That's a process that started, I guess, a little over a year ago and then the second edition came out last November. I still didn't have a professional editor for it that time around, which was just a budget constraint, which was maybe not ideal. But at that point, it had also been three years. Three years?

Yeah. Three years since I published it, and I had professional editing experience. So, you know, they say, you know, you're too close to your own story to edit it, but if you give it a couple years, because it had been, you know, four years since I'd written the first draft, it does give you enough space that you can kind of analyze it differently.

Yeah.

So it worked.

Yeah. I think the more... Especially if you do actually study story structure and editing, which you... You've done, and we'll talk about... Yeah.

And enough years passed, and you're you're your own worst critic, really, at that point, you know, trying to make sure that the the story is how you want it to be. But I I think a lot of us do everything wrong the first time. But the wonderful thing about indie publishing is you can fix it, then you can go back and and redo the cover. I mean... And then I've talked to several people, and the...

One of the problems with the industry is you'll probably change your covers quite often, you know, at least every five years because because people will want to see something different. Okay. You know? So, yeah, we just gotta sort of keep keep moving forward. Right?

So is this a series, this first book, or is this a standalone?

Nope. It's a standalone. My second book is also standalone. My third book, which I'm working on publishing right now, is also standalone. And then my fourth book, which is drafted but not edited, is also standalone, and so is the fifth book, which is in the drafting process.

Oh my goodness.... Like standalones.

Okay. And they're... Are they in completely different worlds? Every single one of them? Oh my goodness.

That's a lot of work....

Found... I think this is maybe part of being a younger author because I was 16 when I published the first book, 13 when I started writing it, and I'm 20 now, is that your brain is changing so quickly in the teenage years that just, like, getting from the start to the end of a novel and having your voice stay the same is really hard, let alone actually planning out a whole series and then writing that. Okay. So I think I might... Like, I would like to write a series eventually.

I just think that that might need to be once I'm, you know, a little bit older and can actually plan something long term better instead of, you know, oh, well, I think I want this story to be like this. And then a year later, you know, it's like, well, now I'm in college instead of high school, and I see the world totally differently.

Yeah. I

don't like my original vision for that series.

Well, that's a very mature way to look at it too. I I had not thought of that, but that is very true. Like, your your experiences are substantially greater, like, different than a decade later in your thirties when you're, like, kinda life is standard. Like, you're you're kind of, like, settled in. I I really like that.

That that makes sense. I think also as a a young person, especially if you don't have kids and you you have a lot of time. This is what I like to tell my kids. Like, you have a lot of time right now. Do it do it now.

Experiment now. And, like... And there's really... There's... I tell a lot of my clients, like, perfectionism is kind of...

And you you admitted to being a perfectionist. But, like, perfectionism, especially in the sense of, like, what will I think of this ten years from now, I think is such a creativity killer because you will not be the same person. It doesn't matter if you're, like, from 50 to 60, 60 to 70, 10 to 20. So you might as well be able to see the work that you've done in your life and and take credit for it and be proud of it. You know?

Like, this is who I was at 20. This is who I am at 25. It's fine. You know? We just...

We will change. It's good to change. Yeah. So when you you publish this book, you then went on to get some... You have become an editor, a developmental editor.

What got you into that? Were you... Was it because you were publishing and you saw this need, or or how did you start doing that part of it?

Well, so when I was starting writing more seriously, so early teen years, I studied story structure a lot. And I am just very drawn to anything with a pattern or structure or something where it's like now everything fits according to this structure perfectly, which, of course, it doesn't. But, you know, when you're first learning about, like, three act structure, it kind of feels like everything does. And I've reached the point where I need to bite my tongue when we're watching movies because of theirs. I'm like, oh, that was frustrating.

That's gonna come up later, and I know how this ends five minutes into it.

Yes. Your family will start not watching with you. My family's always like, shh.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, that is increasingly something that I just picked up on when I was reading and watching things, and then I was going, oh, they could have done that better. And then... Let's see.

I guess it's about two and a half years ago now. I got a part time job while I was in college working for a small publishing company. They do children's board books and recently branched into fiction. And my parents know the owners well, so they're like, hey, we need someone to just do some kind of random part time things. Would Grace be interested?

So I started doing that for them.

Yeah.

Yeah. And one of the tasks they had me doing after, you know, I started with very basic things was first copy editing and then not actual developmental editing. They have a separate developmental editor, but reading through things while they're in the drafting process and saying, oh, this isn't, you know, quite working. What if we tried it this way? So kind of quasi developmental editing.

Yeah.

And then as I was doing that, I was kind of realizing, okay. I edit my own work. I'm now editing, you know, for this publishing company, and they're apparently happy with my work because they haven't fired me yet.

So That is a good indication.

Yeah. So going, you know, why couldn't I do this independently? And then part of that is also I hope to eventually someday be a homeschool mom, but also not knowing what economic situation I'll be in. I want to be prepared to have flexible remote work, And editing is great for that, and it's also something I really enjoy. So Yeah.

Last school year, I edited for free, I think it was eight manuscripts or so of some new authors, some established authors, and then I was getting feedback from them on, you know, is this helpful? Are they things I should be doing differently? And it was all very positive. So as of a couple months ago, I've now started offering developmental editing through my website. So

Nice. Yeah. Is there a specific genre that you're doing?

I'm open to doing all genres. I do have a notice on there about, like, content I'm not willing to edit, but it's pretty broad. But my focus is fantasy since that's what I have most experience with. And then I also read a lot of mysteries and historical fiction and, children's books. So

Yeah.

All of them, you know, I know the genre very well, but I'm open to trying anything just, you know, with the disclaimer that I'm not as experienced in certain genres.

Yes. Yes. I I think it really is important to have disclaimers. And, honestly, because the publishing world and the book world is now so open, so I was doing editing, and it didn't occur to me what manuscripts I wouldn't want to read until they came my way.

Mhmm.

And so they're like... It's just sort of trial and error. Right? When you... I read very widely, like, it sounds like you do.

But then there are things that I just don't ever venture into because it doesn't interest me, and then it comes your way as an editor, and you're like, no. It's probably not gonna work out either. I'm not your your person for that. But I think it's important to... For authors.

I see a lot of authors scrambling to find editors and pretty much taking whoever. And I think it's it's important to to match your editor properly. Right? Like, you have, like, what... Their...

Your world views don't have to be the same, but they can't be complete opposite.

Mhmm.

So you need somebody who is willing to take your manuscript as it is and be unbiased, I guess, in this world.

Yeah. Yeah. And I do mention that in the disclaimer on my website that, you know, I'm a Christian author and editor, and I am open to editing things written by authors who don't necessarily share that worldview. But if it's something that's very anti Christian, I'm not going to be a good fit for that just because it's going to be, you know, really hard for me to read impartially since that's not what I believe Bruce is, you know, if it's, like, just a cute romance novel or whatever and it doesn't mention anything religious, like, okay. I can I can edit that?

That's fine.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. That's...

And it it... You know, anyone who doesn't maybe understand that, like, just try to flip it and be like, well, would you want... You know, I've had... So I have one fantasy. Chris, it's based off of revelations, and I had one one editor just not understand at all the allegories.

You know, and have all of these things being said, like, yeah. You don't really understand it. So, you know, that's money wasted on somebody who was refused or was incapable of seeing the story for what it was. Right?

So Right.

So it's just important to understand that and

and to research a little your editor.

Yes. Maybe before you send it off to them. But as an editor, it's also important to learn what you do and don't want to. That is... So as a young person, let's say...

And I'm a little jealous about what I think the time you have. But you are in college, and you are writing, and you have two manuscripts coming out. And you mentioned that you were in person. What are the things that you are do... Or that you were selling books in person?

So what what are the things that you are doing to get your books out there that, maybe you haven't seen other people do or or just your experiences with it?

It... My my marketing efforts are kind of sporadic right now. This summer, my family is moving across the country.

So Oh my gosh.

I I found a white background, and there's, like, boxes everywhere else in the

house. Right? Are you moving with them, or are you staying behind?

We're trying to figure that out. Yeah. But now I still I still live at home, but, you know, I'm also an adult. So it's kind of like, wait. We don't really know what's happening yet, but that's okay.

Are you the oldest? Is this... Are you the experiment? Yeah. You're the experiment.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's always hard to know the poor oldest. You're always just like, I don't know.

I was unexperienced when I had you. So you have a lot going on in life, which is pretty typical for lots of writers. Like, they're working, studying, moving across the country, whatever it is.

So I was attempting to have a novel come out this summer that I'm working on publishing, and that's not happening. So it might be this fall or winter or next spring. I don't really know. And, of course, not knowing that it's kind of messing with marketing things. But I do have a blog that I have, you know, just some things about writing or world building or whatever it is.

Sometimes, like, things I'm reading in college that kind of tie into writing somehow. I'll write something about and put it up there. I have a lot of free short stories up there, which I think is nice if people are kind of not sure if they want to, you know, buy a novel without reading it or not. And there's a review feature on Amazon, but sometimes the beginning is great, and then how the author ends it isn't satisfying. So just let people kind of have a sample of that.

I haven't done much with social media. I do have a Facebook page, but, again, it's kind of sporadic. I don't know whether I actually do anything there.

I'm not sure anyone does anything on Facebook. That's where I would say. Yeah. I think we're all scrambling a little bit to try to figure out, yeah, in this world, how do you get seen. Right?

Yeah. Well, yeah, I think about maybe, like, a third to half of my book sales are in person. And so a lot of that is, like, homeschooling type conferences or, classical education conferences. So that kind of thing. Since that's the audience my parents are writing for us, then they'll get a book table and then it's like...

You know, once I started writing, it's like, well, just stick my books on the corner of your book table.

Name, last name. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. So... And that's always fun also just interacting with people Yeah. At conferences.

I think maybe the most unique marketing... Not quite marketing thing, but I guess audience research thing that I've done is, so I'm writing... Let's see. The book I'm working on publishing is adult fantasy, but the protagonists are 19 and 25. So, like, not that old.

Mhmm. And then the next two are both young adult. And so it is a unique experience writing young adult fantasy while also being a member of my own target audience. Yeah. Most authors who are writing for kids or young adults are older, so they don't have that experience.

Yes.

And that also lets me, like, mingle with my target audience in a different way because it's not an adult getting to know teenagers. It's, you know, a bunch of teenagers together. Yeah. Until three months ago, and now I'm not a teenager. I still, like, adjusting to that.

I'll say, like, oh, yeah. I'm a teenage author, but I'm not anymore.

Yeah. Oh, no. I got that zero again on the end. Oh my goodness. You're still selling it.

But when you... I think it's interesting to talk about, like, selling in person. I personally think that that is probably the best thing for people to do these days. It does give you a very unique understanding, and it, honestly, I think it forces you to really hone in on your ideal reader and see... Like, you were probably pretty clear on who your ideal reader is, but there's...

Sometimes people just don't know until they go out into the world. Right? And they actually talk to who they think is their ideal reader and maybe find out somebody else. But, I mean, it... It's interesting to...

That there are conferences around America that aren't necessarily just book fairs that might fit very well into where your ideal reader is. Right? So, like, homeschoolers or, like, classical education conferences. If you are writing clean books, I would say, most likely, most of my homeschooling friends would not allow non clean books to... In their...

To their kids. It might be something to look into. Right? Like, even if you are not a homeschooling person, are you allowed to go and and and apply to sell your books there?

For a homeschooling conference? I would think so. I mean, it probably depends on the conference. But Yeah.

I think this is... It's an interesting research topic to do. Right? If if that is your ideal reader. If...

Especially for kids or young adults, it's usually the parents purchasing the books. Right. So you need to talk to them. Because it's weird to, like, target your Instagram towards children. You know?

Like, there's kind of all these weird, things you have to think about all of a sudden when you Yeah.

I do think children's books, at least... So from from the two I have published, one is middle grade, one is young adult. The middle grade one is a lot easier to market because you market it to parents because kids are not online and kids don't have money. The young adult one, it's like some young adults are online and some of them do have money. Yeah.

Some of them, their parents buy all of their books since it's, like, simultaneously trying to market to two different audiences.

Yeah. Do

I say buy this? It's a fun, you know, sweet romance with lots of adventure. Do I say buy this for your kids? Like Yeah. Different marketing language, very different approach versus middle grade is like, well, you know, you're only targeting

This is true. This is a lot of stuff to think about. So anybody who is writing in middle grade or young adults and Mhmm. But it it is true too. The...

Have you seen the controversy? If you're not on social media a lot, you might not see it. But because it's a lot of women my age writing You, They're putting things in there that You readers don't necessarily want or parents of You readers don't necessarily want. And there's this ongoing conversation constantly. Like, it's a very strange conversation, I think, to have of, like, should You books be spicy?

You'd think that the answer would be a resounding no. But, you know, like, there's all this conversation going on. Has that crept up at all? Have people asked you, like, the content of your books, or how do you approach that sort of telling people what are in or not in your books?

Mhmm. I don't think I've ever had that conversation in person. I'm trying to think. And I think that's in part because whenever I'm selling books in person, it's at my parents' book table. And so it's like, here is the homeschooling curriculum.

Here is, you know, the Christian devotional. And so people are like, oh, well, it's probably...

It's probably not spicy.

Yeah. And the, you know, kinds of, like, classical education for Lutherans circles that we run-in, like, people know my parents' last names because they've both done professional speaking. So there's a little bit of, like, name recognition there. I I did find out recently the last conference I was at, I was talking to a nearby vendor who has this, website where parents can upload, you know, pictures of books with objectionable content or content that parents might just want to be aware of. And, Domitian, my young adult novel, was flagged for sexual content because the main character gives birth and it's referred to afterwards.

And so that was kind of making me laugh, like, okay. Guess if you don't want, you know, your teenager to know that she gave birth, you cannot have them read that. But so I was kind of amused by that. But Yeah. Otherwise, I haven't...

I don't think had anybody ask.

That's interesting. Yeah. It does all get get very confusing. I was talking to somebody today, about, like, you know, when when we were kids way back in the seventies and eighties, we would go into the library, and we would check out a book. Like, that's all that...

There were no flagging. There was no... But it was also a different time. There wasn't as much content out there, but it is interesting. You know, if it helps people find the correct books that they find is needed for their kids, and we just all have to respect each other's

Yeah.

That we're all trying to raise our children. Right? So that's why I I always get kind of frustrated with the idea of banning books. I'm like, it's not... Your book isn't banned.

It's just sort of put in a category whether you like it or not, and almost every book is. But, so what are you gonna do with the 19 to 25 year olds? If... Is that considered young adult, or is that... I've heard new adult.

I've heard adult. Like, where where do you think that lands?

I asked my editor her opinion when she was working on that, and she said to just go with adult because new adult is known for having lots of very adult content. And that is not this book at all, and I didn't want to give that impression to people or, you know, be selling my book to people who aren't even aware of that as an age division. Who'd be going, what's new adult? How's that different from adult? And, you know, so I I wanted to avoid, that confusion.

So it does have some coming of age themes, but both of the protagonists are out of that young adult age range and are functioning as adults in their world. So I ended up just going with, adult for that. The female main character is graduating from kind of their version of, I guess, fantasy college at the beginning. So... And like that...

Like, she's, you know, kind of stepping into adulthood, so that might be more new adult. But then the male protagonist, whose beloved interest is, like, he's in his mid twenties. He has an established job. All of these things are... It's like, those are very adult things.

Right. Right. Yeah. And the characters are gonna behave differently, aren't they?

Right.

So Yeah. So do you... As you get older, and I say that with quotes, do you do you think... See yourself moving more into adults, or do you like sort of the balance of of revisiting middle school or or You and and also adult books?

I'm not sure. I thought, you know, because it's like, well, my first novel is middle grade, and then it's young adult, and now it's adult. So it's like, maybe it's just me growing up. But then I now have a completed novel manuscript that's young adult and then one that I'm working on that's also young adult. So I don't I don't know where that's going.

And then there's also the fact that the middle grade is spelling better. So

Oh, really? Oh, that's interesting.

I haven't, you know, had any really exciting ideas for middle grade. Like, I've had a few ideas and started a couple, like, chapter or two, but nothing that really gets me super excited about it.

Right. Right.

Like, just from a practical standpoint, I might return to middle grade because it's just bad. So That's interesting. Yeah. So I'll see.

Yeah. You can always go back. But there there is a real distinction between middle grade and young adult if people don't know. Like, it's much shorter. You have different...

Like, the world is not as expansive as the young adult coming of age are much simpler themes. The themes are are very

Yeah.

Little bit less. Right? So they're... I always thought it was interesting to me to, like... I always wrote adult.

I I mean, I don't know. There was no, like, You when I was a kid. Nobody knew what that was. Probably the publishing industry did, but I didn't. But I always found it interesting that people could even put their brains back into middle school.

You know? Like, I was like, that is a talent that that I don't have, even as my kids go through it. But middle school, I mean, I would... I think I hear everyone saying they want their kid to read more. So it's possible that middle school is...

Would be a great idea. Right. Anybody who has ideas needs to do it.

Yeah. I'm also curious too if in the circles that I'm selling to a lot of, you know, homeschoolers and whatnot, if by the time their kids are teenagers, they're just reading adult literature and said just skip the You. Grace is like, when I was a teenager, you know, I was reading Jane Austen. I was also reading Hunger Games. So, like, I did both, but I'm not sure if that's true to everyone.

That's true.

Don't know if that's part of that as well.

Yeah. You'll have to come back and tell us. Maybe they'll grow into your You Yeah. Or maybe they'll skip it. Yeah.

Homeschoolers do tend to be a bit above the national... I mean, a bit... Quite a bit above the national average on their reading scores. So but, like, I love Hunger Games. I think it is a phenomenally well written series, and it doesn't get boring in the middle, like, a lot of series, and it's not overwritten.

So, I mean... And the the... What's interesting about Harry Potter, though, like, you can tell that how she grows in her writing from one... From book one to book eight. But hunger series is, like, it's it's perfect from the beginning.

Anyway, that's just my personal opinion. That's just my personal... Although my my daughter loves hunger games, but, the selection was her favorite when she was younger. Have you read that one Where she's like

I think I read the first one. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Anyway,

we can have that argument later. Which one is better? So where can people find you? I don't know if you're on social media. We'll have your your Mhmm.

Website below, but where are you active and what... How can people keep following you?

Yeah. The best place is my email newsletter on my website. So that's, author grace mcperson dot com slash newsletter will take you to that or if you scroll down to the bottom of the homepage, that's there. And that was... It it used to be a monthly newsletter.

And now it's, whenever I have something worth telling people about newsletter, which so far has been about every two months, but, we'll see. So it's it's a little irregular right now just due to things going on, but Yeah. Me. And then I'm I'm also... I do have an author page on Facebook.

I don't know the, like, URL of that, but I guess I can send that to you. If people search for my name, I should pop up.

I feel like Facebook should just Yeah. Rest in peace at this point. It's my personal opinion. And and then you said you had short stories. Are those on your website?

Those are on my website. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then I am hoping to...

I have a, you know, book funnel account, so I'm hoping to figure out how to use that at some point so I can post things as EPUBs, or, you you know, share things as EPUBs if people prefer that. But right now, I have on my website, it's a mix of, I have a couple of Mavellas up, so those are as PDFs that you can download. Nice. And then the short stories are just blog posts.

Oh, that's so nice. Yeah. I think people should write short stories. I love short stories. I think people should read short stories.

And then for your... The editing that you offer, is that also on the same website?

Yep. That's author gracemacpherson.com, and then I think it's slash editingservices. But there's a tab if you go to the homepage that Sure. Sure. Looking

for that. Yeah. Yes. Because I'm always encouraging people to get their manuscript edited. And I would say if you're a listener and you are writing You or you are a younger author, it would be really fun to work with you because I think getting an editor who is closer to the to the age that you're marketing for would probably be very beneficial to make sure that they are behaving like teenagers and not adults.

Like, that's the worst.

Yeah.

So thank you so much, Grace, for coming on and chatting with us. It's so exciting to see young people writing and publishing it. So we'll have to have you back on and see how you're doing in a couple years or a couple months.

Yeah. It was great being here. Thank you so much for having me.